joerockhead

Well, I am sorry that I like to do a little bit of yelling to get my point across, and thus I like to use caps. Wow, 12 years old, eh? Really?
As for Obama say the tax cut for 95%, yes, I know he has been saying it. But just recently he added the lowering of capitol gains for small businesses.
And are you really that dissatisfied with the Bush for the last 8 years? All 8 years?
I agree the Iraq issue is totally jacked, and maybe Obama's push has worked for the departure dates being pushed up to exit Iraq.
He is a Congress man, and I am sure before the election process started he was not listened to much. Now he has lots of media coverage and is getting heard. And some of it is good.
Yet, I still question his tax cut plan, the one he proposed in the early summer was not as beneficial as the current Bush tax cut, I will be paying more! (happy no caps?) in taxes under Obama's plan then I do now under Bush's plan. So how is that a tax cut?

My Math is a little better then the average 12 year old. How about yours?

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ravenshrike

It should be noted that small businesses don't pay capital gains tax since last time I checked, small businesses neither invested in 401ks or have holdings on the stock market. So Barry-boy possibly made his least substantial statement yet.

93crawler

Better, thanks. I can now take you a little bit more serious. As far as capital gains, do you sell stocks, or your house every couple of years? Because I really don't see what the big deal is about this, but then again I've never owned a house, or purchased any stocks. I really don't see how you think your taxes are going to go up under an Obama administration, do you make more than 250 thousand a year? Because that's the cap which Obama has set for an increase in a person's taxes. As for Bush's tenure and if I think anything good came of it, I was all for Afghanistan but like Iraq, it too has been mismanaged--other than that, nope.

I realize however, that everyone is in their own unique situation, but in my case I am a poor college student, so what I do pay in taxes, I almost always get back at the beginning of the next year. I will say this though, with two wars currently going on, the economy a disaster, a housing crisis, energy prices through the roof, another potential foreign policy crisis, and several other fronts the next President will have the most challenging dilemma since possibly FDR.

But with regards to taxes, we will have roughly one-quarter of the nation's population set to retire, or already retiring within the next decade (Baby Boomers), which will severely deplete and cripple our already unstable Social Security system, along with Medicare. Think of the impact this will have on the economy, while they may only constitute 25% of the population, they are an overwhelming proportion of the workforce. Consider health care for instance, the field I'll be going into. Boomer nurses account for anywhere between 35-50% of the current workforce, and the workload will only increase as more elderly people require medical services.

With the current situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, and possibly Pakistan, and maybe Iran, we're spending billions a month we don't really have. Simply charging it on the Chinese credit card won't work for too much longer. Within the next decade, our country will face tremendous obstacles and challenges, and the amount the government will spend is only going to increase, regardless of the party in charge of the White House. We spend more than we take it right now, and no amount of spending cuts will solve the potential disaster that we'll face in the very near future. Taxes may have to be increase, and most certainly be increased for the rich, and corporations. You can call me a liberal douche bag, or whatever you'd like, look at what I'm saying, and think ahead ten or twenty years--we'll have a disproportionate amount of people paying into the system, but millions (78 million to be precise) more taking advantage of government benefits.

joerockhead

What? You cannot take me serious when I use caps in a post? Come on.

As for your displeasure with the current Administration, you are just learning what life is like on your own. It is not always easy. And it is not that bad. The Economy is not a disaster (I wanted to cap the nots!).
The Economy is down now, true, but it is not as bad as the press makes you think. Maybe you need to look further and investigate more.
Under the Bush administration the US (that is capped for United States) has seen more growth in the last eight years. More growth then under the Clinton Administration. And the failures are not all the President's fault either. The Housing market is bad for a couple of reasons. Over building, crooked lending practices, idiots getting loans they could never afford (none of these are the responsibility of the President), and the weakening Dollar. Now that is due to the president and our debt.

And yes, the high cost of energy is a combination of many things as well. The weak dollar does help push the prices higher, but there are many other factors too, and these are not all the fault of the President either.

President Bush's biggest mistake is the lack of planning for after the victory in Iraq. There was no intelligence on the horrid condition of that country, nor the will of the insurgents that have kept up the fight. That was the bad part.
In the positive side, Iraq now is not a shit hole like it was. The Iraqi's have access to more fresh water, power, and infrastructure, unlike they ever had under Saddam. They also have a lot more freedoms, opportunities and choices then ever before. So no, it is not a complete failure. When you have an opportunity to travel and see really really poor living conditions and people struggling to survive, you will understand.

Everybody seems to think we can just go right into Afghanistan or Pakistan freely and hunt for terrorists. but we cannot. The governments want to have their say and protect their people, and we cannot just go jumping in. These countries are not Iraq. We have been limited on the number of military we can send.

As for a home, stocks and Capitol gains taxes - Yes, I have both. I have owned a home since 1990. I sold my first house in 97 and made a good profit. I have been living in this current house since. I do not plan on selling it, but do not want to see capitol gains taxes be raised, in case I do decide to sell.
I have stock and though not a huge trader, I made some good profit this last week, and it has all been reinvested. Not to mention my 401Ks. I hope I do not have to pay higher taxes on my profits. Not when I have already paid taxes on much of that money.

As for Social Security, yes, it is broke. The Democratic Congress back years ago started borrowing money from it to fund projects and crap. They re-paid the money borrowed, but never the interest. They did this many many times over the years. Congress Broke it and wants the tax payer to fix it.
And the Democratic controlled congress right now is over spending as well, and they blame it all on Bush. They claim to be the misers of spending, but they are not.

What you need to do is look at the current tax cuts, that President Bush has instituted, and see what kind of return you get from his plan. Then match the Obama proposed plan of $1000.00 deduction of the top. You will see that anyone making between $35,000 and $75,000 get around $400 back from the Bush plan (this is without claiming deductions, just off the top), and compare it to the $1000.00 deduction, that is only $250. I would say $400 is about $150 more then $250. So, if i get less back under Obama, I am paying more. Thus, my taxes have been raised.
Also, there is word that Obama wants to eliminate many of the deductions a normal citizen can claim (I have not confirmed this part 100%). So, I pay more again.

We also hear that Obama wants US companies to employ more Americans. That sounds good, but the US person demands higher pay then the non us person. For a company to pay that, they have to raise prices on their product. Thus we have inflation. If people make the same money, and product prices go up, we buy less of other products. The that company has to find ways to make money, and that is either cut employees or raise prices too. And then the stock prices start to dip, and the companies have even less profit. etc etc etc.

Every President has problems he has to cover fro the last President. Bill Clinton never got he terrorists that attack the USS Cole, or the terrorists that conducted other attacks against Americans. He did not even really track them. However, he did open the doors of our country for better trade, and that has helped in both directions.

Every President does good things and bad things. Most people only remember the bad things.

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93crawler

It's funny how people that still to this day defend Iraq, argue that what Russia is doing in Georgia is somehow reprehensible. Aren't the parallels very striking, and dramatically similar? Iraq was never called for, and if you want to use the justification of "bringing freedom" to the area, or country that's getting a little old. Also, saying they have basic utilities is somewhat warranted, but they only have said utilities for hours a day! It's hard to justify what has happened in Iraq when countless civilians have been killed, the country is in shambles, countless Iraqi's have left the country all together, and we're simply creating the terrorists of tomorrow by staying there. I could go on, and on about Iraq but I think that's been discussed pretty thoroughly here before.

However, taxes shouldn't be the major issue in this campaign, I know that's hard for a Republican to fathom. There are so many issues that need to be addressed, and challenges to be faced. Look at what I wrote before, Baby Boomers are going to cripple more than just Social Security, and Medicare--yet you hear nothing of this in the news, or on the campaign trail. I'll reiterate what I said earlier, when you have 1/4 of the country's population at or near retirement, and starting to draw benefits from an already taxed system, something has got to be done. Baby boomers represent the most productive, and substantial part of our population currently, and replacing them will be virtually impossible. Add to that fact, that we will have a substantially smaller, and smaller tax base to support an ever-increasing aging population. This assumes that we will continue to have a sustained replacement-level growth rate, which certainly depends on legal, and illegal immigration.

I think that people of this country often think of only short-term solutions and don't think ahead when determining what and who will be best to lead this country, this is in no way pointed at anyone in particular.

ravenshrike

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Y'know Crawler, given that the first paragraph is utter bullshit because the parallels are few and far between, and given that the democrats are twice as guilty of anything in your second paragraph, I'm finding it hard to figure out your point. Item one. SocSec is dead simple to fix. Tie benefits to the average age of death plus one from 5 years before the person in question can collect. Then you could go back to the original SocSec payments which were a much, much smaller amount. Item two. Medicare's fucked, but that's because socialism on a grand scale is fucking worthless long term without a hive society.

93crawler

The parallels look pretty fucking similar to me, and I'm not the first one to point it out. It's pretty hypocritical of the US to state that one country can't invade another sovereign country, while we did the exact same thing is just hilarious. A smaller amount for Social Security, are you kidding? Elderly people are barely able to survive on it as it stands now, think of when the Boomers start drawing on an already overtaxed system. Are you proposing to scrap Medicare altogether as well, so I take it you don't want to care for the elderly at all? Amazing sentiment, I think you may just take the cake for being the biggest Neo-con, Karl Rove-worshipping tool on this board with statements like that.

joerockhead

You are totally wrong about Iraq and Georgia being similar. They are not similar at all!
How are they Similar??? What, because a big country invaded them?

Was Georgia under barbaric rule? Was it killing innocent civilians that where of a different faith?? (Shite and Sunni are different!).
Was the President of Georgia constantly threatening Russia with mass Death?

You just hate George Bush and the Republicans so much, you want to believe they are similar.
You also are not open to believe we have made a positive difference in Iraq.
Yes, innocent people have died. Lots of them. But, under Saddam, thousands of innocent people died every year, but you never heard that, as it was never in the press. Read up on the history of Iraq. Saddam was a torturing bastard and he killed and raped women. Or directed it to be done.

As for "Basic Utilities" unless you have been without them for a long period of time, you have no idea how valuable they are. We in America are spoiled. We have everything.
And I am not using it t justify the invasion, as you so wish, I am using it to show why the high cost to us taxpayers. Ev everyone wants to think the Military is getting all the money. HA! The Military is not getting but a small percentage. Most of it goes to the Civilian contractors and the rebuilding of the country.
You want us to just leave it in the Stone age??? Because much of it was.

As for Social Security, I cannot offer ideas of how to fix something that Congress broke. It is more then just the Baby Boomer's, because they had been paying into it, so it should be FAT! But Congress used that money for other programs, remember? Do not believe it? Research it!
I have know that Social Security is jacked for years, so I have already made plans. Part of that is 401k's, other stocks and my Military retirement. So, when someone wants to take a bigger cut of my retirement (Capitol Gains taxes), I say FUCK THEM! (yes caps!).

As for Taxes, I say lets raise taxes by Age.
those over 60, no change
those over 55, .5 %
over 50, 1 %
Over 45, 1.5%
Over 40, 2%
etc etc etc.
Lets see you pay higher taxes and not get anything back from Uncle Sam, even if you are in College.
Medicare is Fucked up, it is really fucked up and has been for years. I do not have an answer how to fix it. But Socialism is not the answer! Do I need to yell that?

We are a Democracy and Democracies do not work well when the Government takes control. Each President has made laws to limit freedoms. And Obama has already pledged more Government Control. You may not understand how important Freedom is to most people, but believe me, we do not need more government control.

And if it is hard for a Republican to fathom taxes being an issue that should not, then how come the Democrats are talking about it so much???

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93crawler

They're very similar because one Superpower, and Russia is looking to regain it's status as such, invaded another for virtually no reason. Iraq posed no threat whatsoever, and if we had waited a little longer, we would have known that for sure. I have read about and researched the war, through a number of books, reports, and articles. If atrocities to the public was a justification for the war, one of the many, then we could have invaded any number of countries, North Korea for instance. Africa, and one of it's many impoverished countries, like Darfur could have been invaded. Every reason for the war has been shot down and disproven, face it, this was a useless war, that is simply breeding terrorism rather than fighting it.

Aside from my discontent with the Iraq war, I stated nothing linking the Republicans, or Democrats to the failures of Social Security or Medicare, but you seem to think it's solely the Democrats fault? As for researching Social Security and Medicare, I did a sixty page paper on the very subject and baby boomers in particular, so I'm quite knowledgeable on the subject.

What you propose for taxes is probably one of the stupidest ideas I have heard regarding taxes. You honestly think that the younger you are, the more you should pay?! Taxes are low for this group because you want to encourage people to go to school, and become productive members of society, you want to have the highest proportion of college-educated people in the society as possible, and the tax system reflects that. If you want the country to grow, and the economy to flourish, then a college-educated public is what makes this possible. This sort of system would never work, and would discourage growth, and probably would never be mentioned by any politician.

Socialism is an extremely prevalent part of our society already, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Post Office, and I could go on. Also, the military to a large extent is a socialist entity. I would love to have the system that the Europeans, and Canadians have where health care is free, college is free, and the taxes are still very close to our tax rates. However, I realize that this sort of system would never probably happen, at least not in the near future. Think of what kind of society the country could become if no one had to worry about being sick, everyone who wanted to go to college could do so, just think about the possibilities. We could also have some sort of involuntary social contract where after eighteen, you would have to serve in some function in the government for a short duration. If we are currently the most advanced, richest, and most powerful country right now, think of what we could become if this was the case!

Continue to blame the Democrats for everything, notice I did nothing of the sort with regards to the Republicans with the exception of the Iraq war, and I really blamed no one directly. I'm one of those people who attempts to look beyond the short term, and tries look into the future, especially when it comes to all things politics.

joerockhead

Oh come on, I am sure you have seen tax systems far more stupid then mine!
I tossed it out to see what you would say. Ha, Stupid.

And if the Democrats are so freaking great, why the hell are they mis spending money now????????????

What, they want to catch up the the Republicans Congress that already misspent billions?

And let me share a bit of news, the Europeans are not really wild about paying 44% plus in taxes, even if most do get free shit. They think we have it better.
At least the ones I knew back in the 80's.

And if all of the children are college educated, whom is going to sweep the streets? Collect Garbage? do the jobs considered menial and yet are extremely important?

I guess I never looked at the Post office as a Socialist job. And sure as hell not the Military. I always saw that as more of a Dictatorship style.

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SideshowBob

1) None of this is free. It gets paid for somewhere.
2) Do you think that Doctor's who work for a flat government rate as opposed to actually making a profit will continue to stay on the cutting edge of medial technology? (and why are Canadians regularly crossing the border to use American health facilities?) What kid ever grew up hoping to be a career government worker? With universal healthcare, what do you think every medical professional becomes? Think about it...if you don't trust the government with the wars it chooses to fight, why they hell would you trust it with your physical well being, let alone to provide for you when you retire.

3) This is also a really slippery slope: government provided health care, university education, etc. allows the government to put stipulations on things: In order to receive your health care, you are not allowed to smoke and trans fats are illegal. To receive your education free, you can go, but we have too many teachers and not enough engineers, so you must study engineering. Do we even think about where this potentially leads?

A democracy can only last until the people realize that they can vote themselves essentially any payouts they want. When the payouts exceed the income, the government begins to fall apart and opens the door for a more totalitarian form of government. I fear that we are quickly approaching this point...and bigger government only serves to speed it up.

Krasch

Damn straight!

We Canuckleheads have so-called universal health care, but the quality and availability varies greatly from province to province.

College is certainly not free here, although our top universities' tuitions are admittedly not nearly up to the level of the US's Ivy League schools.

Our doctors do in fact tend to go to the US for treatment, where because they can pay they get much better and faster access to health care than they do here. Plus many of our doctors leave Canada for the States so they too can make some of that lovely money. We actually have a relative shortage of doctors here.

Many in Canada would like the government in our lives to be the absolute barest minimum. The US would do well to appreciate what it has going for it instead of seeking to emulate others.