ddoubleez

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I am upgrading gpus (again) and cpu.... I am going with a 939 socket AMD Opteron 185 Denmark 2.6GHz duel core and an 8800 gts gpu... Selling the 8400 gs for 30 bucks if anyone wants it...

My current supply is 350 watts, and I don't think that will be enough....

Are all power supplies the same, with the exception of watt supply, or do they have different connectors, more of the same.... I have only one pci-e slot on my motherboard...

And will 450 be enough?

Also any suggestions on heatsink and fans..... Hopefully I will not be overclocking......

CWB

what motherboard are you using ?
the main power connector style will determine what is needed on that side of things .

unlike a line from the constitution states ; "all power supplies are not created equal" .
there is some real crap out there . when i see a 400W supply for 30 bucks i run the other way .
sadly , like the ratings of audio amps of yore and old , the numbers given by some manufacturers are less than honest and real .

antec makes about the best swmps for the money . i (personally) have been running one 24/7 for nigh onto four years .
for your needs , about 500W+ would be good starting point . this will allow headroom for future additions to your machine .


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817103940
this unit uses modular cables ... plug in what you need and stash the rest for later use . make sure that the molex connectors on/to the swmps are firmly seated ... they will make a soft "click" when seated .


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817371004
all the connectors on this one are hard-wired ... everything flopping in the breeze .


rosewill makes a pretty good cpu cooler .
i recently used this one (heat pipe type) in a comp i built for a customer (different cpu combo deal) . i figure that in essence it was 15 bucks over the price of the cpu :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16835200015
make sure there is room in your case for the radiator assembly .
this cooler fits different cpu makes and models using tinker-toy parts .

zalman makes good stuff too ... check around the site .

if you have any questions about what's going on , fire away .

ps ... what make is the old graphics card and the new one ?

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ddoubleez

motherboard:

MSI MS-7093

old graphics card is made by axle.... I like it but I just bought a 26" head and would like more detail without lag.... I have not purchased the 8800 gts yet, but will in the next day or two..... Do I need to worry about who is making the board?

CWB

yeppers ...
just like swmps , you can have a single good part surrounded by crap .
a manufacturer can buy the gpu "chip set" from nvidia and then slap it onto a marginally/poorly designed board .
this is why one sees price differentials of items supposedly being (basically) the same thing .

there are two flavors of the 8800gts available from axle :

AX-88GTS/640D3P20D2HTG 640M DDR3 2 x DVI/HDTV
AX-88GTS/320D3P20D2HTG 320M DDR3 2 x DVI/HDTV

Product Information
Product Code AXLE GeForce 8800GTS DDR3
Category PCI - Express
Memory Type DDR3
Memory Size 640MB, 320MB
PCB Size Full Size
Cooling System Cooling Fan


a search at newegg for video cards using the 8800gts gave results from $140 to $446 :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...%2C18%2C21%2C20

the amount of ram is a consideration as is the clock speed .
but that is still a helluva a range !
i have had good luck with nvidia (itself) and pny as far as quality goes .


i found a picture of your MB ... the main power connector on the first swmps i gave will work . it also has an aux power connector (PCLe) for the video card .
the new graphics card and cpu are going to generate a bit more heat ... make sure your case cooling is up to the task .
those micro-atx boards can be a pain to mount stuff on/around ... gimme a full sized board and case any day .

ps ... the msi site showed a FSB speed of 200MHz ??!! kinda on the slow side ... i hope it was a typo .
how much ram do you have ? what speed and/or part number ?

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ddoubleez

I have 4 pyn 1gb ram.....

I am going to upgrade the heat sink and fan to support upto 6400+, if this is what you had in mind for cooling...

I am an amature at this....

The pny board for the graphix card said 512mb.......

Thanks for all the help so far.... As far as the 200 fsb, the motherboard is supposed to handle the 2.6 x 2 I am buying... Are you saying it may bottleneck or just not perform to specs?

And it sounds like the Antec Neo Power 500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply is the better of the two supplys and you recommend them for my board?

CWB

a gig of ram will be ok for now ... as long as you keep the crap running in the background to a minimum and stick with XP .

case cooling/venting is essential ... elsewise , all the cpu heatsinking in the world won't help ... kinda like sticking a fan in an oven .
i guess it would be ok though . you could make biscuits , a roast and game at the same time ... no need to go to the kitchen in the middle of an online battle .
i run three speed variable case fans . two supply air from the outside world , the third exhausts air from the rear of the case . the two fans in my swmps pull air in from the case , cool the guts of the power supply and ship it out the back . heat is the bane of electronics .

about the 200MHz FSB ... check the spec sheet that came with your MB ... as an example , i have an "older" ASUS MB (P4P800S) that can run at 800MHz .
if indeed your board is as stated then it could cause you a problem ... you gotta get the data in/out of the cpu to/from the ram . there is a lot of crunching going on in gaming that happens outside of the gpu .

as far as swmps go ... i do prefer the "pluginwhatyouneed" types of supplies , it tends to keep things neater .
the antec supply i mentioned has three separate 5V rails . this helps make the supply more robust and will minimize damage in a catastropic failure mode .


as long as you are upgrading the cpu why not go to a 3GHz ?

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ddoubleez

I actually have 4 pyn 1 gigs ram for a total of 4 gigs of ram...

the reason I am not going to a 3 ghz is the 939 socket only goes upto the 2.6 I am hunting down... It is supposed to be stable to 3.4 though, and it gets mucho praise...

Thanks again so far for all the help, and plan to hit you with rep for all post on this thread, even if you have 20 balls already........ You have been lots of help and I liked the fan in an oven anolagy.... That would be a convection oven...

And if I understood you correctly, I went with your recommendation and picked up a PNY NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB DDR3
PCI EXPRESS........

My computer is a hp a1129a, that I bought for a pvr, but my wife stepped on my ps3 cable and pulled it off the shelf and killed it, so I finally gave up on console gaming and am trying pc's for the first time ever.........

Can you recommend a way to cool my case, I have a stock fan that can not blow out a match, guess I did not think of that till now!!!

A link to specs for my motherboard:

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...28&locale=en_US

Look like the 200 fsb is not a typo, am I selling myself short on this motherboard? Should I pickup a better board too, and do you think it will fit my case? Sounds like I am buying a new computer.... Should I walk away from the 939 socket, the cpu I am looking for is over $250, other sockets are much cheeper for the same rating.......

siopawman

go to this site to have an idea of your power supply wattage

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

hope it helps.

CWB

weeeellll ....

given that you are limited by that 200MHz FSB ... and a few other items particular to that MB ... it may be best to keep it as it is for use as a "second comp" and build a new machine from the ground up ...
(it may be something akin to putting a dress on a pig)

i recently built a comp for a guy ... some of his uses were the obvious ones (email , etc .) . he is an archaeologist and as he described some of what he will be needing to do , it became apparent that he would need to handle fair sized data bases and 3D modeling work (maps , overlays , data extrapolation , etc) .
he had a budget to work with (don't we all) so the objective was "lean and mean" . the gpu capabilities/requirements were not extreme (relatively speaking) , a moderately priced PCIE video card took care of it .
if he were to upgrade the gpu (and possibly the ram speed/amount) he would have a nicely workable gaming machine .

here is a list of the parts for that comp . it was designed to run 24/7 (that is the broadcast engineer in me coming out) . the availability/prices/combo deals may have changed , but it is representative of what can be done within the price confines given :

MB : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813186093 ($47)

SWMPS : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817103940 ($85 / after rebate = $50)

CPU : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819116004 ($69) (3GHZ) !!
combo deal (cpu + cooler = $89 / $30 savings)

HD's (2) : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16822135106 (tot $86)

RAM (2gig) : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16820146580 (tot $42)

CD/DVD : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16827248006 ($30)

CASE : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811156053 ($30)

FLOPPY : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16821103203 ($7)

V CARD : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814121019 ($29)

OS : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16832116056 ($90)


the total cost was around $500 .
the case fans were some good ball bearing units i had left over from other builds .
there are some that say that amd is better for gaming vs intel ...
i (and thru the experience of others) have found those claims to be unfounded .
personally speaking , i lean toward using intel due to past experiences of compatibility issues with software requirements and overall stability issues .

if you want to go the route , let me know and perhaps i can be of help .

ps ... thanks for the rep , it is appreciated but most certainly not required
(something about humbleness and humility)

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ddoubleez

if I add a cheap pci add on fan, around 35 cfm will this help or work against (or slow down) my stock fan......

Also how do I know if a motherboard will fit my case? And I think I am building a second pc from the ground up right now... The only original parts are the case, fan hd and card reader, if I get a new board I have a new computer...

The mother board, I think you suggested, is:

http://www.outletpc.com/c3619.html

This is affordable to me and would do this at the same time as the rest of the swaps!

ps picked up the Antec Basiq BP500U ATX12V Version 2.01 500W Power Supply for 30 bucks and am sending in a rebate for 30 bucks, so the powersupply cost me nothing....

CWB

i checked to see if the MB is available from newegg ... it seems to be sold out .
i take it that you are going to get the MB from outletpc ?
you may be able to get a comparable board from newegg ... there is one but it is 100 bucks .

i checked and they have a combo deal on the cpu and cooler :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819116004
so , if you go with the MB from outletpc you can get the cpu and cooler from newegg ... unless pcoutlet has a better deal .

i can't find your hp with the numbers you gave , so i will state what i have found about hp comps in general .
i don't believe i would try to use that HP case ... if it is like all of their others (especially cutesy with roundy corners - gag me) it is jam-packed and cramped for space .
also , that new MB is an ATX form factor board (roughly speaking : a standardized size) . you can measure the old MB and look at the sizes listed on a site to compare . a lot of the hp stuff uses the microatx form factor ... it is a different deal .
heh ... i can tell you that those hp boxes are under vented . there is no real good way to change the problem short of using a cold chisel and a hot-saw (acetylene torch) .
it is best to go with the ATX form factor ... room to work in and on !
all in all , 30 bucks for a new case is an easy out to the headaches .

if you are going to reuse the drives from the HP box , here is something to take into account ... in many of those boxes they mounted the HD's vertically , the life expectancy is not as it should be ... i have seen a high failure rate .
the new drives are much faster than the older ones too .

fans and venting are a matter of physics and common sense ... suck air in and get it to all the parts ... suck the heated air out to the real world .
usually : cool air in the front , hot air out the back .
you can pull air in from the side as well . mine has a front and a side fan ... i really stir it around ... this is one reason it has run 24/7 for four years .
if you pump in X amount of air , you have to remove the same amount ... either thru natural pressure differential venting or augmentation via fans .

___________________________________________

ddoubleez

if I buy a new drive, won't I need to buy an new operating system?

Bought a new case thanks.......

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/produ...g1000bns_kk.asp


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CWB again.

CWB

ok on the case .

i did not see "ball bearing" mentioned ... soooo ... by omission ...
i would bet the one included is a sleeve bearing ... get rid of it .
now you are going to need a couple of fans .

two 120 mm fans for starters and a possible third (80 mm i believe) .
depending on the exact placement/dimensions of the cpu cooler assy you may need to pull that case side plenum . you could mount an 80 mm (?) in its place .

for grins and giggles you could put in a "glow" fans . these come in two basic types : uv activated and colored led illumination .
they are not expensive and provide a nice aesthetic effect ... this is about the only frivolous item i would add . of course , a front panel mount four channel fan controller/temp/speed monitor is nice too (heh heh heh) .

by doing some judicious shopping you can get the glow fans for around 8-10 bucks each . i have seen them cheaper . antec makes good units as does vantec .
do some snooping at newegg ... they have a large selection of fans .

about OS'es ... your comp was originally manufactured by hp . the os that was used in that machine is specific to that machine . the way it works is (basically) one machine (entity unto itself as a unit) , one os .
when you hook up the old HD to the new board there may be an error and it will not allow you to run it .
there are several other factors involved that pertain to the registry , interrupts and a lot of other things ... more headaches in a BIG way .
once again , the easiest and quite possibly the only way out is a new OS .
a copy of XP is about 80-90 bucks ... from newegg , if you buy something else along with it (like a five buck fan) ... something to do with trade agreements .

you say " buuuuttt i bought my comp , i own the OS" !
yes and no ... legally the os and machine (et al) are an entity and are licensed as such to that extent ... HP pays uncle bill "X" number of dollars for each copy of XP put into service . coupling that drive to another motherboard runs afoul of the license agreement . uncle bill and hp don't like it when you try to cheat them out of money .

i liken it to city property taxes ... do you really own that chunk of sidewalk in front of your house ? you know , the one that runs right thru your property between your house and the curb ...
just try to drill a hole in it to mount a flagpole and you'll find out where the ursus horribilus defecates : how much and what color .
of course , you are responsible for keeping it shoveled off and free of obstructions . but you can run , hop , skip and play on it any time you want .

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ddoubleez

You are going to hate me, but I am sticking with the 959 socket, and committed to the fx-60.... You mentioned that there was little difference between the two rivals, but gaming people seem to chat more about the fx-60... It is dated and expensive, but gamers seem to like it... I went with a duel core so I can burn disks or download while playing, I also hate how long it takes for all my applications to open... I hope my choice does not turn you off, and I am very thankful for saving me from overheating in my stock case.....

If I could ask for some help for a 959 motherboard, that will upgrade to an am2 I would apreciate it...... and is the fsb speed the big reason you are recommending the new board.....? From what I understand AMD CPUs do not have an actual FSB due to its design. What it does have is HyperTransport (usually 1600 or 2000HT). The memory controller is built into AMD CPUs, so it isn't connected through the FSB.

Also, would you stick with xp for gaming or go with vista..... People seem to have some confusing opinions on vista....

Also do you think I need to worry about adding a second 8800 gts in the future, or is that overkill for a 26"? And I assume the motherboard has to be ddr3 ready to get all the benifit of the grafix card, or what....

More info on my motherboard: