michaeljohn

click on one of our sponsors! OR REMOVE ADS

There's plenty of oil in Alaska, and it belongs to us. Naturally, some will say go get it, that will drop the price. However, it may not, the market is high...Conservationists say leave it there. Some people have said that the US strategy is to run the rest of the world out of oil, then we will be the only ones who have it. Some of these same people promote a North American Union, combining the USA, Canada, and Mexico into one country. Politicians who are lax on immigration are suspects for supporting this.

I am also starting to hear more about an ice age on the horizon. From the map of the last one, maybe it's time to get it before that happens.

___________________________________________

Bigeme

Leave it. Support research for alternative fuels. Hydrogen/solar power is not that far away - do what you can to help it along.

fmb

I know the oil is there, but I suggest the oil be left where it's at. Here are a few reasons:
1- we know the location, but additional time may help with extracting the full benefit from it;
2- removing the oil is not a short term solution to bringing current world market prices lower. It takes years to create the infrastructure required to get the oil and move the oil to a refinery;
3- the additional time in suggestion #1 will allow additional work and improvement on alternatives. I'm a proponent of wind and solar. Personally, I think ethanol from corn and hydrogen aren't going to cut it...
4- the political situation will make this an ugly fight.

Krasch

FMB makes some real good points.

ddoubleez

MJ, I am beginning to like your threads.....

The first thing to understand is that the amount of oil in alaska national wildlife preserve is not going to make the difference, so many want you to believe it will...

Alaska, is bound by the diameter of the pipe that runs half the length of north america... In addition, you say it is ours which is 100% correct. It is on a reserve and on public land, which means the citizens of the US own it.... But the second it is passed that we lease the land and mineral rights to oil companies, it becomes game for the world market and a bulk of it will be purchased by china with NO benefit to the american people....!!!

The total of oil expected in anwr is around 2000 gigabarrels....... This is not what I would consider plenty....

And out of curiosity, who thinks that americas strategy is to run the rest of the world out of oil? 65% of the recoverable oil is in the middle east, 4% is in the United States......

michaeljohn

we save our 4%, and let the other 96% get used first. it isn't a policy made public, it's speculation by many people.

___________________________________________

udubtacer

Save.

Because the total supply of oil in Alaska is a small portion of our consumption, I think it's best to hold out and use ANWR as a last resort. Since the supply does not seem to have the ability to lower prices in the long term, I think it should be viewed as a secure source of supply for future use. The ANWR can be thought of as an long-term extension of the Strategic Oil Reserve (SOR) in case we face a shortage.

At least we have a domestic source that can help alleviate the shortage, but as to how long, I am not sure. The high oil prices is an incentive for innovation for people to conserve and prioritize, especially when the time comes for us to tap our reserves to continue running our vital assets.

ddoubleez

The thing is we do not have enough now.... And the strategy is to save.... Would have been possible if we listened to Carter in the late 70's but it is too late now.....
And as far as saving our 4%, I agree with you, it is too valuable to burn... But if you think we are doing so, you may be interested to know that we are extracting ours faster than any other country...... At the same time our competitors are kicking our ass in development of alternatives.... Too little to late for them, but they are in a far better position than we are.... We also have the most oil dependent model on the planet.... Europe did most of its planning and growth before oil was influencing everyone... That is why our streets are much wider, and our cities more sprawled out....... We are at the disadvantage here....

ddoubleez

BTW, if we stopped production now and held on the the current 2%, I was wrong about us having four, we could not eat, or cut a check to government employees, let alone run a M1 Abrams...........

ddoubleez

These are good points, but something else to consider is that if it takes half a gallon of oil to pull, or push up, the oil from a field, it will never leave that field, no matter what the price is or what technology.... There is a set force that gravity places on anything and when you approach needing the same amount of energy it takes to get it out as the energy it yields, it is pointless.... And there will be NO INVESTERS.....

And as I have said in the past, you are right about hydrogen and ethonal... It takes about 1.75 times the fossil fuel energy input as the output of ethanol... And nearly 8 times the fossil fuel energy to rip hydrogen of an oxygen atom as the hydorgen yields.........

BackdoorJesus

drill the shit out of it; the sooner it's gone the sooner we can work on alternate energy sources.

___________________________________________

ddoubleez

The founder of earth first drives a Cadillac from the 80's that is huge, and when people call him a hypocrite he replies,'the faster we burn through this shit the sooner things will get better.....'

I strongly disagree, however. But what is new...

I feel we should put off the use of oil for many reasons, it contains compounds that we can not reproduce without it, like medicine.... Two, if we ever do find another energy source, the energy needed to produce the infrastructure could take an large reserve of energy..... Example, what if our children figure out how to control fusion but do not have the resources to melt the medals and create the concrete, or pay the workers.... We need it to eat, and without it we could not control infestation of insects the way we farm now.....

Oil is very valuable, and we burn most of it.... Just let that sink in... There are many ways that we can make crude last for very long time, but we are trying to burn it up as fast as we can....

Juan.©amaney

Ever driven a car or anything powered by natural gas, ddoubleez? I used to drive one daily....F-150, back when I worked for the army corps. Seemed pretty powerful. Now...you've ever heard the whole you can light farts on fire and that cows are a big producer of methane gas etc when they "burp"???

I know you think that fossil fuels, namely gasoline and diesel are about to end and that we should save what we have because EVERYTHING is tied to it...but does that really make sense to you?

Theoretically speaking, If we were to stop using the oil we do have left and somehow managed to survive the weening...we still need oil to do the other stuff, right....medicine you mentioned. In time, wouldn't THAT run out as well?

By the arguments in most of your posts, you seem to think it is the overpopulation of the planet that is causing most of the problems and that we are all doomed. Yet you seem VERY worried that stuff like medicine will be scarce because we are running out of fuel to create it. So what do you want to do? Reduce the population? Go back to the stone age and farm the old school way? Develop alternate fuels so we can continue to commute every day and live life as we have been living it?

Other than a bunch of facts all scattered around in youtube videos, and websites produced by people who share the same opinions as you....what exactly is your plan? What do YOU in YOUR OWN words think we should do in order to secure that the planet is okay for the next few generations?

___________________________________________

FattyJJ

I've still yet to see where you actually stand on this issue of oil. To me, you seem to think we have a vast amount (discovered or undiscovered) available 24x7 365 using the same methods we use today to get it out of the ground. Those oil pump dinosaur things all over the place aren’t moving anymore for a reason. Do you deny that we are using, and increasing the use of, oil at a rate that cannot be sustained?

Not sure what you are trying to say in your first paragraph with the cow gas reference. I get that you used to drive a natural gas powered vehicle, its still a fossil fuel, and not a great solution.

Why should we even take the chance of running out of oil? Forget that DD "thinks" it is running out, what if he is right? Humans have a bad habit of not preparing for their future well enough. This is a product of giving the wealthy the power to make important decisions (whole other bag of worms I wont get into right now). Fact: We have a modern civilization based on oil usage. What sense does it make to wait until we know 100% we are about to run out to start talking seriously about conservation? Why not wean ourselves off now while we still have it to use as a backup? Then we are prepared for it when it dries up. Almost 50% (43% to 52% were the numbers I found) of the oil in a barrel is used for Gasoline. If we cut that out, we would have more time to find alternative solutions for our other oil uses.

You like to take the stuff DD says and make it sound like he is expecting us to wake up tomorrow morning and the world be gone. Overpopulation is a problem, but I don’t remember him saying it was the major cause of our problems. Our major problem is that we do not use what we have in the best possible way. Example: We've been so dumb in the past, that we clear-cut millions of acres of trees, that we have to have to make oxygen, for paper! Recycling has helped, but people still clear-cut. We live in a time right now where we have no consequences for our actions. How much more damage do we have to do before we start paying for what we've done to our planet?

I'm not sure how much more clearly he can put his views. It seems to me that the majority of his posts reflect his personal views and words. But then when I read his posts I'm trying to learn something from them, not scrutinize.

[edit]removed some crap