93crawler

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With over 28,000 troops in Afghanistan right now, and 3,200 more Marines being sent over there, why can't we stabilize this country? I for one think the biggest reason is the fact that we took our eyes off the real problem, and created the clusterfuck that is Iraq---Messopatamia, as the Daily Show so eloquently puts it. Thoughts?


By ALLAUDDIN KHAN and NOOR KHAN – 4 hours ago

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) — A suicide car bomber killed 38 Afghans at a crowded market Monday, pushing the death toll from two days of militant bombings to about 140.

The marketplace blast, which targeted a Canadian army convoy, came a day after the country's deadliest insurgent attack since a U.S. invasion defeated the Taliban regime in late 2001. The toll from that bombing in a crowd watching a dog fight rose to more than 100.

The back-to-back blasts in the southern province of Kandahar could be a sign insurgents are now willing to risk high civilian casualties while attacking security forces. Though their attacks occasionally have killed dozens, militants in Afghanistan have generally sought to avoid targeting civilians, unlike insurgents in Iraq's war.

"The attacks show that the enemies of Afghanistan are changing their tactics. Now they are not thinking about civilians at all," said Nasrullah Stanikzai, a professor of political science at Kabul University.

"They wanted to cause such big casualties in these attacks to weaken the morale of the government and the international community, to show the world the Afghan government is too weak to prevent them," he said.

The Taliban denied it carried out Sunday's attack, but immediately claimed responsibility for the market bombing, which took place in the town of Spin Boldak about 100 yards from the border with Pakistan.

The bombings come amid warnings that Afghanistan could see even more violence this year than in 2007, when a record 6,500 people — most of them militants — were killed. The U.S., with a record high 28,000 soldiers already in the country, is sending 3,200 more Marines in April.

Hours before the marketplace bombing, Kandahar Gov. Asadullah Khalid raised the toll from Sunday's attack from about 80 to more than 100, saying some of the dozens who suffered wounds had died.

Khalid said 38 people died in Monday's bombing and 28 were wounded. Three Canadian soldiers also had wounds, NATO's International Security Assistance Force said.

The governor complained that Canadian troops had failed to heed government warnings to stay away from the border with Pakistan.

"We informed the Canadian forces to avoid patrolling the border areas because our intelligence units had information that suicide attackers were in the areas and wanted to target Canadian or government forces," he said. "Despite informing the Canadians, they went to those areas anyway."

A Canadian military spokesman, Lt. Cmdr. Pierre Babinsky, said threats of attacks would not deter troops from their missions.

"We regularly receive threat warnings and obviously we go where we want to, when we want to, in our area of operation," Babinsky said. "We obviously take notice of these warnings but our aim is to operate freely within our area of operation despite those."

Though the Afghan-Pakistan border was closed Monday because of national elections in Pakistan, some of the wounded were taken to a hospital in Chaman, Pakistan, just across the border.

One of them, Abdul Hakim, lay in a hospital bed, his clothes caked with dust and splattered with blood.

"A white Toyota Corolla car rammed the second vehicle in the convoy as it passed through the bazaar," said Hakim, who witnessed the attack from his grocery store. "Then there was a huge explosion. It was dust. I do not know what happened to me."

One of the Canadian military vehicles was heavily damaged by the blast as were several shops and civilian vehicles, said Abdul Razeq, the Spin Boldak border police chief.

When asked about the large number of civilian deaths, Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi claimed 10 foreign soldiers and "a large number of police" were killed. The Taliban often make false or exaggerated claims that their attacks kill NATO or U.S. troops.

Meanwhile, Afghans buried relatives and friends who died in Sunday's attack. Officials said the attacker targeted an anti-Taliban militia leader, Abdul Hakim Jan, who died along with 35 of his men, who served on a government auxiliary police force.

Khalid, the Kandahar governor, told mourners at a mosque he had warned Jan about three weeks ago that militant suicide bombers were trying to kill him. Government officials haven't identified any suspects in the attack.

Antonio Giustozzi, an Afghanistan expert at the London School of Economics, said it couldn't be ruled out that the attack was carried out by one of Jan's tribal rivals.

Kandahar province, the Taliban's former stronghold, has been the scene of fierce battles between NATO forces and Taliban fighters the last two years.

The province, one of the country's largest opium-producing regions, could again be a flash point in the increasingly violent Afghan conflict this year.

The previous deadliest bombing in Afghanistan killed about 70 people — mostly students — in November, part of a record year of violence in 2007 that included more than 140 suicide attacks.

p45fan

"The attacks show that the enemies of Afghanistan are changing their tactics. Now they are not thinking about civilians at all," said Nasrullah Stanikzai, a professor of political science at Kabul University.

"They wanted to cause such big casualties in these attacks to weaken the morale of the government and the international community, to show the world the Afghan government is too weak to prevent them," he said.


Yes, it's disheartening to see such little progress. And I'm sure you would agree with me that the ultimate blame lies with those setting off the bombs to kill civilians. But as Dr. Stanikzai put it, the whole rationale behind the attacks is to create a sense of defeat. Maybe Iraq WAS a mistake. At this point, I don't care too much, I'd rather start thinking of how to fix the situation.

My ideas? Well....I'm not convinced that a withdrawl will solve anything, for starters. I would like to see more grassroots efforts, designed to instill much more confidence in the good guys. Perhaps focusing more on guaranteeing basic infrastructure? That always seems like a good place to start.

Unfortunately, I couldn't really tell you where to begin with that...I really ought to work on that, so I can back up all this blather...

fmb

To me, the toughest fight is against those not willing to come out and put up his/her dukes and leave the civilian population alone. Then again, that's why it's called an insurgency; situations of this type leave no one out of the battle, irregardless of standing or age. Personally, I see this as lowest of the low....

Answer to the problem?? I don't have it, otherwise I'd be on all the talk morning shows telling folks how to fix the BS. At least 93Crawler is bringing up some points to discuss!

Anyway, I noticed the large number of deaths at the dog fight. I heard Vick set up the fight card...

FattyJJ

[QUOTE=p45fan
My ideas? Well....I'm not convinced that a withdrawl will solve anything, for starters. I would like to see more grassroots efforts, designed to instill much more confidence in the good guys. Perhaps focusing more on guaranteeing basic infrastructure? That always seems like a good place to start.

Unfortunately, I couldn't really tell you where to begin with that...I really ought to work on that, so I can back up all this blather...[/QUOTE]

So, who are the good guys? The US? The UN? The only infrastructure we can create will have us stuck in that desert just like we are stuck in Japan, another war we thought could be won. All we know how to do is build bases and keep killing.

I told a buddy the other day, the only way to "win" this war is to kill every living human being over there. Because as long as a forign entity is occupying a country, there will be people who dont want them meddling in their business.

fmb

FattyJJ, you have a point. Not many understand the mindset and culture of the middle eastern folks. They've been invaded and subjugated by many of the worlds powers. To them, does it matter what flag you're flying or the message you're trying to say?

Maybe we should get the message: thanks, but get the hell out; we'll try to sort out this business on our own....

FattyJJ

I would give you rep for that, but I cant since I gave you some for the number bug thing.

America is the newest kid on the block, who are we to tell the world how to live? I agree that we have some good ideas, but to try and force them on a world that has survived for thousands of years before us is completely asinine and big headed.

I think that our leaders completely understand their mindest, they cant be completely oblivious about what is going on, they just dont care about it. Just so long as they can keep lining their pockets, nothing will change.

ddoubleez

Well, 93crawler, this may be the only point you and I don't see eye to eye....

No matter how many troops we have overthere, we would still be fucked...... The Afgans wore the former USSR down and was one of the more major contributers of the fall of the USSR empire......

We are just the next superpower in line to fall....

I am waiting for 93crawler to upload Taxi to the dark side

93crawler

I haven't heard of it, the movie that is, so I guess I'll check it out. I'm well aware of the history of Afghanistan and their involvement in the Soviet-Afghan war. But one big factor in their ultimate defeat of the Soviets is that we were backing them, and arming them as well. We then did what we ultimately always do and pulled the rug out from under them so to speak, by ceasing any help and abandoning them.

I was always for the war, but much like Iraq, when do we leave? I think that the time has since past, and any further help we give should be economic, and diplomatic. The UN should be tasked with the security, and peacekeeping efforts of that country. As the preview of Taxi to the Darkside suggests, we are making more enemies than we are defeating by staying in not only Afghanistan, but definitely Iraq. So I think we're basically in agreement, Juan seems to think we are "butt buddies," ---his words from another thread. Whatever, I don't check this place out nearly as often anymore, it's getting pretty lame--and it's not because people share different points of view than mine.

CD

Here's the problem. We went to war, not with a country, but a group in that country. That's right people... the War in Afghanistan isn't the war WITH Afghanistan.

So why is it that we now have an Iraq War? I fully supported the ass kicking of bin Laden, and was hoping that we'd get him, but the shift to Iraq pissed me off and I have never gotten back my confidence with this countries military objectives... I mean, Commander in Chief.

I truly believe that if that area of the world didn't have any oil, we wouldn't have a problem with terrorists today. The fact that those people have had numerous countries tell them what's best for them, has fostered an entire area of hostility. You want to know how to handle the Middle East? How about thinking long term and not picking the convenient side for the short term, only to flip sides when something better comes along. Not only that, but try not to fix their government by putting pro-US diplomats in charge of a newly created government. They aren't dumb, and can easily see that we aren't looking out for their well being when we make sure their government is run by the "corrupt."

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ddoubleez

I would miss ALL of you posts.... Don't leave...

With or without our support and money the USSR would have had no luck there... We can not will an occupation against people that have nothing else to loose, but their lives..... Another question we should all ask is, what was the last successful military 'adventure' that the US has had, and the answer in itself should cause us to leave.... 40% of our occupying military are reservists, they train for 30 days a year!!!!!!!!!

I would say leave without a second thought.... No plan..... Then fund the UN....

You and CD are dead on when it comes to the logic that you are more likely to meet with backlash from an occupation than abandonment...

As far a MJ goes, I have gotten enough positive rep by making him look silly, he can keep it up....

michaeljohn

You know, I stay out of arguments with you because you are not a worthy opponent. I owned you over and over again in your Gore threads, pointing out your countless inconsistencies and misinformation. You made me look silly? Hah! This statement is another spin on the truth by you. Since I have stopped posting here, a few other people have stepped in and owned you plenty of times to put you back in your place; That is a biased disgruntled member of society with ignorance of all of the facts on what you believe is the truth.

There are forum rules, and there are respectful rules. Keep me out of it unless I am around, is that clear?

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Edit: I have also asked you twice before not to drag me into your threads with insults, yet you do it again.

Oh, and you say you got positive rep for making me look silly? I checked. You got repped twice for this post: http://forums.webrats.com/showthread.php?postid=2676570 From the rep comments, it was sympathy points for you. In the Gore threads, you got no rep. No wonder, you kept stumbling over your own words time and time again.

That was another example of how you totally ducked my questions to you. I pointed out just below that how once again you failed to comprehend and answer the simple things I was asking. Your history here is full of that. And you admitted being drunk again while posting.

Now that the 3 day ban Juan imposed on you for your behavior here is lifted, you can read this post. I hope for once you actually do.

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ddoubleez

Make a thread on the bottom of the whole and I will meet you there........ PM me the the link.........

I can't report this post, becasue a moderator already hijacked it, reporting will do nothing..... So:


Guess I confuse you with mainstay, and I am sure that the MODS like you telling everyone that you have the ability to snoop around in private areas in
this forum...........

Can someone else translate the rest of his post out of the 15 year old's world of texting into a real language............ How old are you?