93crawler

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I came across this reading the news on the web today, it boggles the mind how much we've spent, and are projected to spend for this pointless war. The article is below, enjoy.

Hidden costs could boost wars' price tag, report says

By Tina Marie Macias, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
4:01 PM PST, November 13, 2007

WASHINGTON -- The total cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could balloon to $3.5 trillion over the next decade because of such "hidden" costs as oil market disruptions, foregone investments, long-term health care for veterans and interest payments on borrowed war funding, according to a report released by congressional Democrats on Tuesday.

The projection, by the Democratic majority on the Joint Economic Committee, is more than $1 trillion higher than a recent forecast by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which accounted only for direct spending and interest payments and assumed a moderate withdrawal of troops between now and 2017.

"The full costs of this war to our economy are manifested in ways that have never been accounted for by this administration: We are funding this war with borrowed money, Americans are paying more at the gas pump, and it will take years for our military to recover from the damage of the president's failed war strategy," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., told a news conference Tuesday.

For the Iraq and Afghanistan wars so far, those costs total about $1.6 trillion, the report found -- almost double the direct appropriations of $804 billion in the 2003-2008 fiscal years. Of that, $1.3 trillion, or more than twice the $607 billion appropriated, is for Iraq alone.

The report by the Joint Economic Committee Democrats -- Republicans on the panel did not participate -- comes as the House and the Senate prepare to vote, probably this week, on a $50-billion spending bill for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would provide the funding on the condition that the Bush administration begins immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops, with a goal of complete withdrawal by Dec. 15, 2008.

If Bush does not agree to the conditions and vetoes the bill, then he "won't get his $50 billion," Reid said, and the Pentagon would have to use its own budget to cover the costs of the conflicts. President Bush recently signed a $470-billion Defense Department appropriations bill that covers mainly costs unrelated to the wars.

Press Secretary Dana Perino defended the administration's Iraq policies, pointing to reduced violence and improvements in the Iraqi economy. She said the Joint Economic Committee report has "obvious motivations" behind it.

"This committee is known for being partisan and political," Perino said. "They did not consult or cooperate with the Republicans on the committee. And so I think it is an attempt to muddy the waters on what has been some positive developments being reported out of Iraq."

Aside from the obvious costs of direct appropriations and the interest on borrowed funds, the report said the war takes money from such "productive investments" as education, law enforcement and health care.

The report noted that more than 30,000 troops had been wounded so far in Iraq and Afghanistan, and although it does not specify how many have been significantly disabled, it found that costs related to their inability to return to productive work and to their need for care, thus requiring family members to quit their jobs, could total more than $30 billion.

The price of oil also has been affected by the war, the report said, with the cost of a barrel almost tripling from $37 a barrel the week before the U.S. invasion to more than $98 a barrel last week. Although it is difficult to quantify the size of the war's effect on prices, the report said, it has "been one factor contributing to a generally unsettled state of oil markets over the past several years."

The problems in Iraq, particularly the loss of production, contributed to at least $5 of increase in the cost of a barrel of oil, the report said.

CD

Wait a second... how can this be? It must be lies, because before we went to war with Iraq, Bush promised me and the rest of the American public that the war would pay for itself. I'm confused...

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fmb

Yes CD, this war was supposed to pay for itself by using Iraqi oil revenues to fund the war, rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure, and repay US loans to the provisional government to assist with additional rebuilding efforts. Unfortunately, this payment plan rapidly went to hell in a handbasket. The oil pumping and distribution systems were in a shambles; in addition, insurgents frequently destroyed sections of pipelines, limiting the ability to bring oil to world markets. I am wondering how much oil is coming to market with the recent reductions in insurgent attacks after the troop surge. Has the reduction in attacks allowed for better maintenance of the pipelines and more oil to come to the market??

93Crawler has stumbled upon an enlightening news story. Many people focus only on the direct expenses associated with waging a war; however, this story looks at additional costs, such as: long term healthcare; maintenance of equipment; markets; and interest on money borrowed to fight the war.

Additionally, I am very happy to see this story on the news. I've often said if a portion of our government was not happy with how this war is conducted to use his/her power and influence to change or stop it. For Congress, this means the "power of the purse"; do not provide money for the war if the majority do not agree with what is happening! It's about time this has come up!!

FattyJJ

Unfortunately, as educated as this may make people, nothing will happen. I wish someone could show me the light at the end of the tunnel, but all I see is darkness. As long as the companies that fund the politicians continue to make billions, and offer big dollars to top military officials if they back them, the DoD and congress will continue to sacrifice our young men and women for the all mighty dollar.

fmb

Good point, FattyJJ. What's the old saying? Young men will die as long as old men in suits send them, or something along those lines. I'm all for the leaders of the opposing countries standing in the squared circle; the last one standing is the winner.....

93crawler

It's not like the Dems aren't trying, they just don't have the numbers, or the votes required for a 2/3's majority, for overturning a veto.

Iraq War Bills by Both Parties Fail to Pass in the Senate

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: November 16, 2007

WASHINGTON, Nov. 16 — Senate Republicans today easily blocked an effort by Democrats to act on a war spending bill that would have provided $50 billion for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, but would have required that troop withdrawals from Iraq begin within 30 days.

The bill had numerous other strings attached a well, including a goal of completing re-deployment from Iraqby mid-December 2008 and a narrowing of the Iraqmission to focus on counter-terrorism and training of Iraqi security forces.

The vote today was the latest attempt by Democrats to force President Bush to shift his war strategy, but they were able to muster only 53 of the 60 votes needed to cut off debate and move to a vote; 45 senators voted against the measure.

A Republican counter-measure, which would have provided $70 billion for the military operations with no strings attached, also failed.

The House approved the supplemental war spending bill earlier in the week, and Democrats there had hoped that the Senate leadership would force the Republicans to filibuster, adding drama to what has become a familiar routine of Republicans using their powerful minority to block war-related legislation.

But with lawmakers eager to head home for the Thanksgiving recess, there was little rhetoric on the floor and the votes were taken in quick succession.

There is enough money in the defense spending bill that Mr. Bush signed earlier this week to keep the military operations going through mid-February, because of a provision that allows the Defense Department to shift money from other Pentagon accounts.

Democrats, who have failed all year to force a change in Mr. Bush’s handling of the war, nonetheless seized the opportunity in hopes of reminding the American public that they are still intent on achieving that goal. Republicans, in turn, accused them of wasting time.

Senator Mel Martinez, Republican of Florida, said the Democrats should accept that they cannot change the war policy. “The commander in chief is the guy in charge of running and war and they can’t affect that,” he said. “They are not going to get the votes to do what they are trying to do, so I don’t see why they would continue to do that.”

But Democrats, including the majority leader, Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, said they would continue to press for an end to the war. “We must not forget that 2007 has now been the deadliest year for our troops of the entire war,” Mr. Reid said in a speech on the Senate floor. “We must remember that more than 3,800 Americans have died. That tens of thousands more have been gravely wounded. That, according to the Joint Economic Council, more than $1 trillion has already been spent. And that 5 million Iraqi men, women and children have fled their neighborhoods or left the country altogether out of a total population of less than 30 million.”

The fight over war spending is certain to resume early next year.

93crawler

This is an excellent video about the Iraq War, I won't upload it, or give a link because it's over 700 mb---it's called No End In Sight. It's a very good documentary though, check it out if you have time or download it from a torrent as I did.

ddoubleez

I think the estimate was 28 billion... Then it went to 60....


Now we are at:

New estimates show Iraq, Afghanistan will cost US $2.4 trillion; White House refuses to provide estimate


Bush wars to cost 40 times higher than original estimates; $8,000 per man, woman child in US



http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Your_..._8000_1024.html

ddoubleez

This maybe an interview on the movie.....

"No End in Sight" - Colonel Paul Hughes (part 1 of 4)



It is easy to find the other three and there are plenty of trailers.....

Too bad no one will upload it to flyupload.... Hint.....

FattyJJ

I am currently downloading it via torrent, I will work on uploading it after its done.

93crawler

Alright, hint taken---very subtle. Here is the movie, although I doubt many on this forum will take a look at it, since there is so many Republicans, and so few of us. In any case here is the link, sorry if I stepped on your toes by doing this fattyjj.


http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=1975535

FattyJJ

You SOB! j/k

My torrent froze a few hours ago and hasnt moved since, so it would have been a while before I got this up. Thanks man.

ddoubleez

The thing that is much more dangerous than a muslem is our national dept....

http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

joerockhead

I do agree, this War is costing far more then it was originally planned, and it is directly to the poor planning for the "after War" efforts. The fact that there was no real plan for what to do after we took Iraq, is what frustrates me the most. And that has had a huge part in the time we have been there and the costs of the new equipment and many of the lives that have been lost.

But, this report is not factual. It lists things that are hardly able to actually calculate and items that are ALWAYS going to cost money.
Including the cost of aftercare of the troops should not be associated with this.
The fact that the price of Oil going up already was mentioned at the end. Only $5.00 of the $98!!!!
The Fact it is Harry Ried!!! And strictly from the Democrats!!
The fact that the Interest in the loans is going to cost a lot. Hell, they stole money from Social Security, why not do it again?

This is just as if the Republicans put out a claim that the way is not costing as much, as we will get the $$ back later.

It is biased. the independent estimate is Outrageous too, but more accurate.

And What these reports never discuss, is the BS attachments to the bills that screw tax payers out of millions for some BS congressional crap!!!

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