malichi

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To leave or stay?

This is a LONG post everyone so bare with me please.

I have been with my wife for about 5 yrs total. We dated for a little over 2 and have been married for a little over 2. She is 25 and I am 30. We both started with nothing except 2 ragged cars and now collectively have a 3BR house fully furnished with everything new and all SS appliances. We bought a 60inch screen and Onkyo 7.1 surround. We bought all new living room, bedroom and dining room suites. We both sold our original cars and we bought her a 95 Mustang GT (she wanted one since high school) and I bought a 04 Dodge Ram. We also have a 94 Intrepid that we use as a more economic vehicle. The kids we have are a boy and a girl. He is 3 and she is 2. Both are more attached to me because I spend more time with them. I feed them and play with them and take them to daycare and pick them up. I put them to bed and wake them up as well as bathe them. This isn’t 50% of the time but rather 95% of the time. On the weekends when they get up before me (I say me because my wife loves her bed far more than me) they come and get me up to feed them or turn cartoons on because my wife doesn’t get up for them. When they were both infants I got up with them at night and changed them and gave them bottles because my wife sleeps so hard she never heard them cry. This has always bothered me because she sleeps so hard that if the kids ever got hurt she wouldn’t know it. I worry about the kids all the time because she constantly leaves things laying around for then to get into. She will leave scissors, glasses, combs, toothpicks and so many other things that the kids put in their mouths and run around the house with. I fuss at her all the time about putting things up where the kids cannot get into them. She will come home from work and immediately put her two (yes TWO) purses on the end tables and walk away. The kids obviously get into them and then she fusses at the kids which means I then fuss at her and tell her that if she would put them up then they wouldn’t get into them. She dislikes changing diapers (now pull-ups) and always has. So I end up doing most of that. Only here recently will she change our daughter and I will change our son.

Now, I am only 30 and not 50 (no offense to those of us here who may be older ;-) ) and what I am saying is I still like my sex. When I dated my wife things were good and really good. We would get together all the time and almost anywhere. She used to love to give oral and I did her. But after a year of marriage things dropped way down. She no longer wanted sex like I did. I still like to go everyday or at least every other day. I like to wake up to sex and go to bed with sex. In other words, I still have a huge appetite whereas for my wife she only may want it once or twice a month. This has been a big issue over the last year. There have been many times I have offered her oral (just to get things going) and she will decline. My wife has no problem cumming so that isn’t an issue. When I finally get her to do oral though, it is so bad that she might as well not have even tried to do it. She doesn’t do anal and won’t have sex anywhere outside or in the shower. In the last few times we have done something, it isn’t that great because she will just lay there and not really participate. She doesn’t like to ride and doesn’t like it from behind either. If she is on her back and I am on top she can only stay that way for a bit as she says her legs begin to hurt so we usually end up with her on her stomach.

So about a little more than a year ago we both filed for divorce and dated other people. Well the girl I dated ended up being very dominating and so I left her alone. The guy she dated ended up no longer having interest in her and so we ended up getting back together and not going through with the divorce.

Since then, things have really not gotten any better. When I get home (because I get home before she does) I start cleaning the house. I start with the kitchen and clean any pots/pans/glassware and warm them in the over/stove to dry them (b/c I hate water spots) and I load/unload the dishwasher. I take out the trash if needed and straighten the living room. I separate the clothes and wash/dry as needed. I am NOT the type to let things pile up until the weekend. I was brought up with in a family where my dad was 20yrs in three military branches and 20yrs civil service on the marine base. I do most of the cooking and I make all the plates for everyone and feed the kids. Afterwards I clean the table and do the dishes. All the time my wife sits in front of the TV. I swear to you if the cable was out I do not know what she would do without it. I pack the kids bag for the next morning and get their clothes out. On the weekend I do not have so much to do because I do everything throughout the week but I do sweep the hardwood floors and mop the entire house. I have, at times, gone through the bathroom with a concoction of bleach and ammonia with SOS pads and cleaned everything. Where is my wife? In bed usually or watching TV. We both make good money and make about the same per hour but she does have the advantage of being able to do OT whereas my job does not permit it. The ONLY thing she has to do in the house is fold and put up clothes. Then has the audacity to complain about how long it takes because there are so many but she won’t do any until the weekend gets there. By that time she has the entire weeks’ worth that I have wash/dried.

I have expressed my desire for help to my wife and go no results. I am the type where if she would be more willing to have good sex and do good oral I wouldn’t mind doing some of the things I do around the house. I am the type that doesn’t sleep much nor need much sleep. But I have a never ended hunger for sex. Right now as I type this there is a sink full of dishes and 2 baskets full of dirty clothes. There is food left out on the stove and left on plates in the kitchen and I am NOT going to clean any of it. I want to see how long they are going to sit there before someone (other than me) does something about it. I have tried this before by the way and it didn’t last to long because I can’t stand to see everything pile up but I am trying it again.

I feel as if my wife is very ungrateful and spoiled. She has everything she wants and needs. Every new movie or album that comes out, she has. I make sure she misses none of new TV shows. I do all the landscaping and keep her car clean. One year I bought her 5 dozen roses for V-Day and when she came home from work she asked me where her stuff bear and balloons were at because so-and-so got a damn bear and balloons. Did so-and-so get 5 dozen roses? Certainly not!

So this has been going on for so long that I am so tired of it. We have talked about finishing our divorce so many times. If I could do OT at work I would do it just so I wouldn’t have to come home. It has been mutually agreed that if I leave I will take my truck, the surround sound, my Xbox and one of the two desktops and laptops as well as my personal items. That’s all I want. I will give her everything else and all that is in the house.

So, everyone, should I leave or stay?

Here is the kicker. I’ve been seeing this other woman for about 6 months or so we have been doing quite well. But then again, what relationship doesn’t do well in the beginning, right? Well, she is 20 and while she is extremely beautiful (so is my wife) she is very timid and shy. It took me a long time to get close to her. I can tell she has had some things happen to her in her past from the way she acts about things but I have never really asked her about any of it. I do know her family wasn’t very financially stable when she was younger and this has had some impact on her for who she is today. She doesn’t like to spend money and is very conservative. She does cook and she is clean. She is far from being materialistic. She has told me as long as she has a roof over her head, AC and food she is happy. So she is a very simple woman. She and I have spent a lot of time together and get along very well. She knows my situation and so it isn’t like I have hidden anything from her. Sex is everyday and consistent. On the weekends we would go anywhere from 5 to 7 times a day. She doesn’t like for me to give her oral but she does a damn good job on me. A REALLY good job. So now I find myself wanting to be with her more than my wife.

This leads to the issue of having to choose. I love my kids more than my wife. They are closer to me more than they are to her. I spend more time with them than she does and do more things for them that she does. Don’t get me wrong, she is a good person but just not as affectionate and mindful to the kids as I am.

I have thrown hints to my wife and also have been very clear and blunt with her about what I want from her and yet I find no change in her. However, I know she doesn’t want me with another woman. Yet she continues not to do anything I ask. Am I missing something here?

There is obviously more to everything that what I can add here but I am already at 3 full pages and trying to keep it short (yeah right). I know I do still love my wife but am not in love with her. I know we have no patience for each other any more and are constantly at each other about something.

So what does everything think? Do I stay or move on? I think I am a bit selfish but when did your own happiness mean selfishness? I can tell I am an entirely different person when I am not around my wife. There is no trust in my marriage and I know that is a problem.

maggiesdragons

Okay, here we go...
If you wanna try and get her attention... cancel the cable, that will get it real quick. with no tv to watch... 1 of 2 things will happen, she will either get so pissed that she leaves or you guys can work somethings out

If I were you I would just call it quits and I say keep the house because you are gonna end up with the kids, you know it, I know it, she knows it. You are trying to make things work, she isn't... she really doesn't care about the marriage, she just doesn't wanna hurt you as a person. I'm sure she does love you, but she isn't in love with you. she may need some counseling to figure out the things going on in her head.

As for the kids, I'm glad that you love them more then your wife, that is the way it is supposed to be. I want you to think about the kids in this situation, if you leave the mom... how are they gonna be treated? are they gonna be ignored? their diapers changed? feed? loved? I'm not sure that your wife even wanted to have kids in the first place, but it was something that you wanted so she popped them out and left you to be the dad you always wanted to be.

also I will never have a TV in my room because that is what ended my last relationship. I couldn't get him out if the room to do anything, including getting a job. and our sex life also suffered because he was more interested in the tv. I wonder if she was the same? - minus the job thing

The blow jobs suck because she doesn't wanna do them, she isn't willing to make sacrifices for you, but you are still willing to make them for her. I can understand you high sex drive and how frustrated you are the lack of sex.




P.S. to make sure you have her full attention, find a sitter for the kids in case it gets ugly and hide all of the movies, don't' forget to check the dvd players for extra dvd's

CD

Wow. You have my sympathy. I know that your relationship will not work out unless she sees a therapist and/or gets marriage counseling. I'm just wondering if this might be because she's been with you since she was 20 and maybe is just thinking "what if". As far as leave or stay, I think it also depends on what state you live in. I know that the way things work in SC, the woman almost always gets the kids, regardless of how perfect the guy is and how unfit the mother is. It's a shame, but you may want to talk to a lawyer about that and then ask her specific questions about the kids and house once you find out.

Unfortunately you are in a bad situation, and my only advice would be to talk to the experts and possibly document certain behaviors in case it gets ugly.

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BackdoorJesus

If you're already seeing someone on the side, you're already out of this relationship.

It does not sound like you & your wife are destined for anything other than a breakup.

Best to face the inevitable & end things in an equitable & decent way before your resentment builds up to a point where you can't do it nicely & the kids end up suffering for it.

It sounds like you guys are on a pretty even playing field income-wise, so I would think that financially you will just end up splitting things down the middle.

The tricky split of course will be the child custody. Whether or not she has been an attentive mom, in your opinion, will probably be irrelevant. She will fight you - unless she is different than the vast majority of the women out there - if for nothing else than to secure additional child support from you in a settlement.

For these reasons, get an attorney & take care of things in a calm & businesslike manner.

Also, and your attorney will probably tell you this anyway - file for divorce first, and do so with NO preparatory discussion. Seriously - the time for discussion will be after you have filed, because there really is nothing left to discuss as far as saving this relationship - any discussion prior to your filing will only tip your hand and you will lose any advantage you may have in filing first (being the plaintiff is always an advantage over being the defendant).

Finally, make no mention whatsoever about your outside liaison until after things are settled between you & your wife - this outside relationship will only serve to damage your position in court as the wronged, but more responsible & conscientious spouse.

Good luck; this is tough but it happens more often than not.

Best to just get it over with so you & your kids (and your wife) can move on with your lives.

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fmb

Wow... in many ways, this reminded me of the hell I went through with my last marriage and its soon-to-be end (hopefully). You have a huge battle ahead; BDJ and CD have pointed out some good reminders for you: a) you're seeing another woman, so you're pretty much out of the marriage; b) she will fight you and probably be very viscious; c) child custody will (and should be) a serious issue. Maggiesdragons reinforces the seriousness of the potential end of this relationship with the reminder of what quality of care the children may, or may not, receive if they stay with their mother.

Take the advice to find an attorney right now! The best defense is a good offense. Also, I'd ditch the new relationship; in court, a relationship outside your marriage can only harm you. Don't worry, you'll find another companion. Also, I'm not suggesting you serve your wife just yet. This might take some time..

Another suggestion: talk to your wife about attending marriage counseling. If she refuses to attend, attend the sessions without her. This seems crazy, but is a very important step concerning custody of your children. The time you (or both of you) spend with this counselor may help you in court; the counselors testimony can be used by the court to determine the ability for her (and you, they will look at you) to properly provide for the children.

Trust me on the counselor bit; without the two counselors my soon-to-be ex and I went to, my divorce process would have been more hell than it has. Recently, the counselors provided information to the court about my wife's mental illness, how the illness was influencing her decisions in the divorce, and the credibility of her claims and testimony. These two people have been a godsend.

Good luck; try to stay positive; and if you'd like, keep us updated and use us here for support.

crizzycruz

Give Everything You Got!

kulotsalot

It is clear that the first breakup-and-make-up did not work because you guys did nothing to resolve the underlying issues in the marriage.

A few things that come to mind:

1. A person most likely cannot control how deeply he/she sleeps, so I don't think it is fair to blame your wife for "sleeping too soundly" when the kids may need her during the night. Some people are very light sleepers, some won't wake up even if you're partying in the next room; clearly it varies depending on the individual.

2. Some people are just more neat freakish than others. You grew up in a military household. She didn't. If you want the marriage to work, you guys will have to figure out what works for BOTH of you, so reach a compromise of sorts. Divvy up the tasks, set a time table for each one (this should be arrived at by both parties, not just you imposing your strict schedule and standards on her or vice versa) and then agree that once a task is done, the other person CANNOT re-do it to meet his/her standards or comment on 'how badly' it was done or how it can be done better. I see this a lot in people whose housekeeping standards are just not in line with each other. The one who is less of a neat freak usually gets criticized a lot about how things are not clean enough, not done on time, not efficient enough, etc. that they just get tired of it all and end up not even bothering to try and do anything. I hope this isn't what you're like, but you kinda sound like it.

3. Lack of desire to have sex on her part could be a passive-aggressive way to combat your issues with her housekeeping (or lack thereof), or it could be hormonal, job-related, medication-related, boredom, seeing someone on the side like what you're doing, etc. If you can't have a frank discussion with her about it, or if she is not even interested in finding out what's wrong, then that's probably gonna be a deal-breaker even more so than the unwashed dishes.

4. Either both of you jump back into the marriage with both feet and really work at it (this means dumping your girl on the side) or decide that you're done and take steps to end it. You can't really work on a marriage while you're banging someone else on the side. If you do decide to split up, I think you should fight for the kids since you seem to be more involved and you "care more" than your wife does.

Hope this helps.

malichi

I have threatened to cut the end of the cords of the TV soooo many times....LOL



Here in the state of GA, everything will get split and sold or something must be agreed upon. Also, since she is a brithgiving parent (even though the kids are biologically and legitimately mine) she will get them. You must prove her to be unfit beyond a reasonable doubt for the court to award them to me.



Although I am sure she will feed, bathe and look after them, it is he habits that make me wrry about the kids safety and security. But because I have always been there to pick up behind her, the kids have never really gotten into as much they have tried to get into.



The TV is actually in the living room. Not that this makes much difference but I thought I would poit it out.



Lack is an understatement. But when it does happen, I feel as if I am the only one into it and the only participate. I know that after 2 years of marriage it should not be this way.

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We did the counseling thing. The things he suggested, I did. But with her it is always something different. What I mean is, she says she will start doing this or that if I do this or that. But then whn it comes down to it there is always an excuse or stipulation. Here is GA the woman will always get the kids in most of the cases. It has to be that she has no place to stay/no job or alcohol/drug abuse.

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Yeah, I have told her I want joint custody and we can alternate when each of us has them. She already refused ths even though we both know who is better with the kids. The kids do not listen to her and do not come to her when they are hungry or hurt. They always come to me and she sees this all the time.



I tell you now, the only thing I want is m truck, my Xbox, the surround sound, and 1 laptop and 1 desktop. Everything else she can have and I think this is MORE than fair.



Yeah, I know better than this. That is grounds for a divorce in itself.

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I do not think she will refuse. It is just that she will not do anything that is suggested for her to do. While I do have an open mind on things, there are some things I do not see changing.

malichi

I agree with this and completely understand. My brother was the same way but worse. When I wanted to wake him I would have to hold his mouth and nose closed.....seriously.



I agree with this also and we have tried it. We had a big dry eraser board on the fridge that we used to dictate who did what. While my wife and I are alike in so many ways. We (like most people) are different in so many offers. When I come home I start working on the house. I dont sit until everything is done for the day. My wife says she stays "tired". She can sleep for 8-12 hours and wake up only to tell me how tired she is. I have Hip Hop Abs and some other aerobic DVDs I got for her and she did them a few times and quite. I bought her a step board she used minimally and an abs ball she never used. I bought her vitamins she cant remember (or wont get in the habit of) to take. I bought her weight loss pills (Hydroxcut) that she cant seem to take consistantly and now have likely expired. Now she will take them if I remind her to or put them in front of her. I am the type person who is very loving and affectionate but I do not like excuses. You cant be tired ALL the time and something cant hurt on you ALL the time. If it is, then something else is wrong and you need to let a MD check you out. We have 3 huge Rottweilers and 3 Englifh Mastiffs that she can go walking with but wont do. Yes, I was taught that is you use something you pu it back when you are done. That way you know where it is next time. She i constantly setting things down and cant remember where. She just simply doesnt pay attention to what she is doing.



I think it is all of those things. Ive never met an early 20s female with no sex drive.



The only issue with fighting for the kids is money. I know I do not have enough to drag her to court. It is just TOO costly of an item. I totally feel as if I am the better parent and I certainly pay more attention to the kids but I just cannot afford the legal fees associated with attorneys.

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Lemme clarify that I do not with to make her ut to be a bad person. I do love her and if we could get things back to where they were then I would be happy. But when she neither wants to cook or clean or do anything sexually, well then I think I know what to do. She doesnt trust me and is always going through my phone (when she THINKS Im asleep). But like I said earlier as well, I am tired of being the house maid.

Here is an example, she worked lte last night so I made dinner and had it ready for when she came home. We all ate and afterwards I asked her to help change the kids and get them ready for bed. She was in front of the TV watching it. The deal is supposed to be that she does our daughter and I do our son, This is just trying to make is equal. So I ended up changing both of the kids alone because she was still watching TV. Then, as usual, the kids wanted something to drink. I told them to go tell thier mom and they did. However, while they were waiving thier cups and telling her the wanted something to drink, she was one-on-one with the TV still. So when I gave her a look and said something to her about it she the decided to go get the drinks but since I had already gather the cups from the kids, I made the drinks myself. At this point she sees I am upset about it but it is too late. She the TV is on, it is ALL she sees. She has no peripheral vision a that point.

Right now there are 2-3 loads of clothes that need to be washed and the sinks are full. The countertop cannot be seen and I am not doing any of it. Im tired of working at work just to come home and having a second job. While I understand if I was by myself then I would have to do it. But then that wold defeat the purpose of being married and supposedly having help wouldnt it?

I think my biggest fear is what I am giving her and leaving behind. I dont like that fact that I am 30 and will be starting over. But at the same time, if I am to make a move I need to do it now and not 10 more years down the road. I worry too much about money and having to get everything all over again.

fmb

Thank you for the additional information and explanations; this has helped me see more than I originally could. I really hope you will decide to do the counseling thing, even if she attends. Personally, I hope she DOES attend. Why? This will allow the counselor to see the real issues, personalities, and problems. You will need this to happen if you have any real expectation of gaining full or primary custody of your children.

I, as many others, have suggested to end the relationship outside your marriage. Even you pointed out having this relationship gives your wife cause to divorce you; this definitely would place you on the defensive, kill any chance of gaining full/primary custody, and place complete blame on you for the demise of the marriage. End it.

Again, do the counseling; in many ways, I lived your life. I've walked many miles in your shoes and am well into my divorce. Why not learn from us who've traveled the trail you believe you will (or must) travel? Previously, I said the counselors were testifying for me and without them, my life would be very troubled.

How troubled? What kind of trouble? After my soon-to-be ex (let's call her Jane) left, I gave her everything she wanted from the house. There were very few things I needed (similar to you); shortly after getting "her" stuff, she stopped paying on the furniture and abandoned her car in my yard while I was on a consulting trip (and refused to pay for it; it was in my name).

Two days after getting her notice of seperation, I received a notice from my first wife telling me she was moving to terminate my parental rights for my son (he lives with ex #1 in Michigan). In this court notice, she declared I was an alcoholic, abused her and her children, and abused and was negligent in care with my son. Needless to say, ex #2 was suddenly buddies with ex #1 (they were always bitter enemies); her claim was based solely and entirely on information recently (!) received from Jane!! I was now fighting wars on two fronts, which is never a very good thing (it didn't work to work for Napolean or Hitler!).

How have things turned out? Michigan courts saw through what was happening, did an in-depth check on me, and determined the charges were BS; the court refused to take any parental rights from me, and encouraged me to seek more. South carolina courts are dealing with my most recent psychotic fugitive from happiness; the counselors testimony has been crucial for the defense against Janes accusations. In the end, I believe I'll come out "smelling like a rose". This would not have been possible without the counselors.

Learn from the travels of others; don't repeat what you can bypass from those you read from.

uacmarine

Malichi, I by no means am a medical expert or even know much about medical stuff at all. However, before you get under way with some of the divorce stuff have her go to the doc to see if anything is screwed up with her thyroid. My grandma, mom, and aunt all had thyroid problems which lead them to take long naps, made them be irritable, and just kinda be lazy around the house plus a few other things. As far as the sex goes, idk...I'm not saying this is the problem, but I just want to help you narrow down the possibilities that it might be a side effect of a medical problem. I wish you the best of luck in your situation. Also as a side note, I work at a 'exchange house' for kids and divorced parents who have visitation rights...it's my job to record everything that is said/done in the interactions between parent and child(ren). These records are used in court if the parent with/without custody wants to ban the other/obtain custody of the kids...it is a costly service, but if she is definitively not being a good mother then those records may help you. Also, would it be a good idea to get some hidden cameras in your house to serve as video evidence? Once again, I am not sure on the legality of that, but it's just a thought.