sapipa

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Alright, I'm somewhat embarrassed by having to ask for some advice on this, but I don't know what else to do, and maybe some of you might have something helpful for me.

First, some background. My girlfriend and I have been together for over 4 years. We love each other and will most likely tie the knot sometime in the near future. We have been through many trials, such as not living in the same state for the majority of our relationship, but we've made it through. I would ask her to marry me, but I recently was commissioned as an officer in the Army, and I want to make sure that she will be able to handle life in the military before I ask.

When we first got together, we both wanted to wait until we were married to have sex. I'm somewhat religious, and she's considerably more religious than I. Well, over the past 4 years, my feelings towards sex have changed and hers haven't. We talked once about how my feelings have changed, why they changed and why I think it's ok to have sex before marriage now. Since then, whenever I bring up sex, she gets upset and says that she doesn't want to talk about it. So now we virtually never talk about this issue in our relationship, which I think is a pretty big one.

We are intimate with one another, but we just don't have sex. We have come very close to having sex a couple of times since that talk, but she always backs out. I've tried telling her everything that I can think of to get her to see that it's ok. I've used it's part of a mature relationship, it's obvious I'm not just looking for sex (because I could easily get sex without a 4-year relationship), and quite a few others.

Well, my question is: What else can I do? I know that whole "it's her call" deal. And I honestly do respect that. I don't want to force her to do anything that she doesn't want to do. It just wouldn't be right. I know that. But what I do want is for her to want it. What can I do, what can I say to help her see that it's ok for us to have sex?

Bigeme

In my albeit limited experience, sex complicates things. I think that its very important to have a healthy sexual relationship before you get married. I would imagine you want to be comfortable and confident when you get married, but I have felt that when I sleep with my girlfriend I feel a lot closer to her.

I can't think of anything that you could say to convince her, but talk to her about why you feel it is important. Debate the issue. If religion is the only thing that prevents you or her from having sex you should reconsider why religions have said that premarital sex is wrong and realize that the world has changed a lot since those times.

If she refuses to talk about sex with you maybe you should reconsider. You won't last together if you don't have some mature approach to life.

CWB

it sounds like you have pretty much said all that you needed to say .
honesty in communication in a relationships is good to have ... you can't be faulted for that .
it sort of boils down to basic algebra ... a negative times a positive equals a negative . all the mulling it over in the world won't change it .

personally , i would not have tried to change her viewpoint ... you said it ; your views on the matter have changed .
this is something that is a basic part of her personality and as such only she has the right to change it in an unfettered manner .
the honorable thing to do is to accept her views at face value . if this means that it requires you to end the relationship , then so be it ... it is better to live in the truth rather than a lie . by living a lie you do two people a dishonor .

when it comes to military vs civilian life , it is a tough call . it is a different lifestyle . her basic personality type may not be compatable with military life . another aspect to think about is security clearances .
another factor is that marriage = responsibility . down the road you may be required to make a choice ... if she really doesn't like military life then you are faced with prospect of getting out and loosing the time you have put in . this can cause a little resentment on your part and that has no place in a relationship .

weigh out the situation carefully ... remove emotional thinking from it ... you then have a better chance of doing the next correct indicated thing . the choices you make along your path in life are yours to own ... nobody else could , should or would .

sapipa

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm just going to try to keep talking to her about it and maybe someday... Anyway, I do love her, so I'm not going to let this break us up. Thanks again.

Juster

wow am i the only one to say this but i guess its 3 in the morning so im emotional just marry here and im not saying that for you to get into her pants you seem like you care alot about this girl and she cares alot for you lived in another state for how long more then 6months if so its all said right there. I was in a "long distance" relation ship once it fell apart 2 months after i left i won't ever do it again and for you to come out of one hell man thats the most assurance you will ever need.

zeppy

No it's not... well, not entirely. Believe it or not, you too have a say in something like that. Granted, you can't force anything, but if you can manage to put your opinion forth in an eloquent enough way, she might be convinced.

kulotsalot

Honestly... just stop talking to her about it. Your feelings have changed, and you've had the chance to say your piece when you had "the talk". She still feels the same way. It's time to drop the issue and decide (on your own) whether you can live with the situation or not. Believe me, if she changes her mind OF HER OWN ACCORD you will know for damn sure. If you're thinking of marrying her someday don't even think about trying to change her mind about such a big issue, because if one day in the future she realizes that wow, she only gave in because you wanted her to, it will have terrible repercussions for your future together.

I have heard this schtick before... "I totally respect your views BUT don't you think it would be better if we did things my way? If you saw things the way I see them?" Total fucking BS. You respect me but lay a total guilt trip on me whenever you want some action? Yeah, right. Please, don't even go there.

The hardest part, personally, is knowing that on some level, I wanted it just as badly as he did, but on another level, I had very valid reasons why I wasn't having sex. Purely logistical, which was great, coz I had a very clear picture of what the situation should be before I am comfortable with having sex. Can't imagine what it's like be torn due to religious reasons - must be even harder!

Trying to convince her to change her mind is essentially making her pit her faith against her physical wants. Think of it as each person having two components - the physical, and the religious. For your part, both components want the same thing - you've decided that sex is OK and your religious part has accepted that it's fine and guilt-free. For her, though, those two sides are NOT in agreement. I'm pretty sure that there's already an internal war going on inside her head, which is why you've come pretty close to having sex, but then religion steps in and she decides it's not happening.

To be so torn like that is not a good feeling. I have honestly had weeks and weeks of just thinking... what am I supposed to do? Coz in a way, when you eventually choose which side will "win" it's like you're killing that other half of yourself that you've believed in for so long, since in this situation there is no compromise. Especially for people who are really religious... I guess it's kinda like saying "God is OK with me having sex before I'm married." I mean, it takes a heck of a lot of soul-searching to essentially speak for God (since I doubt he'll ever talk to you like that) and say Yeah, he's ok with this, I won't burn in hell (or whatever it is she believes in). Trying to convince her to pick one side over the other is essentially egging her on in her war against her own beliefs, and believe me, it is NOT a good feeling. Because then she's not just considering her faith vs. her sexuality, you're also adding your needs to the mix (and if she loves you then on some level she will be wanting to please you too).

Anyway, bottom line, no amount of convincing will do any good... in fact, it will probably do more harm than good. So just let her figure things out on her own. You don't have to "make her see" that sex is OK, she will have to arrive at that conclusion on her own.

tres28ram

Men make excellent boyfriends, and lousy husbands.....so the saying goes....but
do not confuse religion and xex....each has it's own place in the home....

sapipa

Juster, thanks for the emotional comment. However, you must have skipped over the section where I said that I don't want to marry her right now. I have just entered the military and, while we have been together for a while and been through a lot, military life is much, much different than civilian life. I would like to give us some time to get used to life in the military before I try changing our lives any more.

Wow, kulotsalot, really laying into me. Thanks though, I needed to hear that. You didn't just tell me to drop it. You gave me a glimpse into the mind of a female. Crazy as that can be sometimes, it really did help me realize what she is going through.

However, I do not agree that religion and sex are two seperate things, as tres suggested. I believe that they are interconnected and that fulfilling your physical desires, if done for the right reason, can also be spiritually satisifying. Since my girl wants me to be the spiritual leader in our relationship, this will undoubtedly come up in our discussions sometime. Therefore, kulotsalot, it will be very difficult to drop the subject completely. But when this issue does come up, I will try to keep it vague and only say "physical pleasures" and "spiritual pleasures," not "sex" and "religion."

Finally, zeppy, thanks for reminding me that no matter how useless and futile a situation seems, there's always a chance of success. You give me hope.

kulotsalot

There's the problem!! Religion for the most part is interpretative. Like those inkblot tests that the shrinks make you do, religion, IMO, is giving people the same book and then just letting them interpret it however strictly/loosely they want. (Who says what the "right reasons" are? What if your "right reasons" are not the same as her "right reasons"?) That's why you've got some people who are not into eating pork and who think that oral sex is sinful, and that's also why there are some people who believe that it's all good, as long as you're nice and do no harm etc etc. So unless she is willing to accept your "spiritual leadership" and align her interpretation with yours (which, right now, we know isn't on the same page at all since she tells you to shut it when you start talking about it), it ain't gonna happen.

If you can make it work more power to you, I'm just sayin I really think it'll be better for you to not force your religious interpretations on her.