Juan.©amaney

What double standard? As far as I know, the stars and bars flies proudly over many places in the south. People have KKK rallies all the time. Minutemen show their proud american roots in bumper stickers everywhere. You are racist when you try to put other people down. If all the KKK was about was helping people advance the white race, I'd be proud of their movement. It's preaching hatred and unecessary stereotypes that I frown upon.

If you guys seriously think that people are passed that whole "oops, we're sorry we raped your women and children, beat your men, and hung them for trying to be human, then you guys aren't reading enough. It might be dead in your household, and I applaud you for that, but the fact that this guy got banned for a joke that all of us probably giggled at shows that its not.

Everyone knows that porch monkey scene in Clerks 2. I think this is what comedians are trying to do. They are taking the word back, and taking the power away from it and turning it into something possitive. I, on many ocasions, call my black friends "mah niggas" and they are okay with it. It's changing....but slowly and to say that this stuff is behind us is naive.

That whole brown pride tats...it's really only the lower class cholo and hoods that do that. I wouldn't get one. Doesn't mean I'm not proud. Same with middle and upper class white people...they wouldn't wear a stars and bars sweatshirt to the gym.

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Juan.©amaney

To add further "walk a mile in their moccasins" type debate...think about the person you hold most dear. Korny, think the wife. You and her were perfectly fine, married about to have a kid and along comes this race of people, they snare you, put ya on a boat and ship you somewhere. The dude that owns you takes a liking to her, and takes her from you whenever he wants and if you say anything he whips you. He rapes her, beats her, and then makes you work his land.

Sorry guys, that type of shit doesn't just go away.

Now you are freed...your children are free, but they can't vote, can't drive, can't learn with the other people....you are free to live at a lower class than white people.

That doesn't go away either.

Now you got you guys today. You didn't see any of this in real life, just read about it in books. So along comes a black educated man who hears you saying "it's the past, it's no big deal" when his father and his father's father actually lived through it.

It never goes away. Ever. It's a part of our fucked up history. Sorry but yeah, white people fucked over a lot of people to get to where they are and a lot of people now are trying to reverse that. It took a couple hundred years to get to where we are and it might take a couple hundred more to feel like we're even.

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koЯnut

I never said it was no big deal. It was and is a big deal. But it is used as a crutch way to often for people that like me never experienced any of it for one second.

I'm not saying it should be forgotten. It should be preached all over this nation. Use it to educate...not for an excuse.

Just because I might have a great grand pappy that did these horrible things, should have no bearing on black peoples views on me.

Growing up in San Diego I was jumped several times by groups of Mexicans just because I was a white kid. I remember it, but I don't hold any grudges to any Mexicans. In fact, I even kinda sorta have a slight fondness to you Mr. Camaney.

I get it...they were thugs and I was probably on their turf. It might have been my fault for simply walking home from school my freshman year. It makes perfect sense that as I was getting kicked in the face while they were yelling "Fuck you white boy" over and over. Or that time I was playing catch in the park by my house with my cousin and and looked up to see us surrounded by those guys. I won't even get into the beach brawl during Sand Castle Days in Imperial Beach.

Shit happens in history. Either we get over and move on, or hatred will never die.

Juan.©amaney

Oh yeah, I know some people use it as a crutch, and to those people I say, STFU and get back to work. What those mexicans did to you was wrong. You don't have to justify their actions. You are a big man for forgiving...some people just have a harder time letting go. These guys beat you up a few times...at least they didn't own you.

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Krasch

I agree that what happened in history IS a big deal, but it IS history.

You say "at least they didn't own you", and you're right. But none of the blacks and other races using historical wrongs as an excuse were owned either. Their ancestors might have been, but that's a totally different story.

The unwillingness to let go of the past only makes things worse. I may be white, but I've never owned slaves, nor would I. And I'm getting damn tired of hearing that everything is the evil white man's fault. Even some whites are born to lesser advantage than others, but they have to haul themselves by their own bootstraps. Why aren't others held to the same standard?

Juan.©amaney

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What about all the other stuff they fought for in the civil rights movement? This stuff isn't as old as you think it is. It's not just about slavery, it's about everything that came with being black in racist america. Sure there were people who refused to own slaves back in the day, but it didn't mean it didn't exist. Same now...there are racists that still lead this country. Take that little "innocent" joke the Republican Party made about Obama....if he moves in, is it still called the "white house"...

Again, this isn't about using your color as a crutch, it's about the injustices made by the world on the black man and how it affected them generation through generation.

If you are white, you will never understand it. If you are an outsider like me, you STILL won't understand it, but it might be easier. Don't judge them until you have lived in their shoes, in their color. Hatred is pased on from generation through generation and it hasn't been that long since blacks were still inferior legally.

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Krasch

The only problem with that is that it's now politically correct to commit acts of so-called "reverse" racism. And until everyone is treated equal and racism of any sort is considered inappropriate, then we ensure that racism will not only exist, but in fact thrive. All we're doing now is creating a new group of "victims" and it appears the logic that promotes the process is "two wrongs somehow make a right"

Juan.©amaney

non sequitor Krasch

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Krasch

It does not follow?

Oh I beg to differ, and I'll offer proof.

Just as an example in Canada, we have the Employment Equity Act of 1995.

"The Employment Equity Act designates four groups as the beneficiaries of employment equity:

1) Women

2) People with disabilities

3) Aboriginal people, a category consisting of Status Indians, Non-status Indians, Métis (people of mixed French-Aboriginal ancestry in western Canada), and Inuit (the Aboriginal people of the Arctic).

4) Visible minorities, a category defined as the following (using the nomenclature of the Canadian government): Blacks, Chinese, Filipinos, Japanese, Koreans, Latin Americans, Pacific Islanders, South Asians, and West Asians/Arabs.

The term “non-white” is used in the wording of the Employment Equity Act and in employment equity questionnaires distributed to applicants and employees. This is intended as a shorthand phrase for those who are in the Aboriginal and/or visible minority groups. In this context, the use of the term non-white does open the door to ambiguity. For example, people who are Arabs or Latin Americans may consider themselves to be white, yet the federal government treats Arabs and Latin Americans as members of the visible minority category."

So if you're a white non-disabled male, it's actually politically correct to be discriminated against. And it's happening brother...

I have personally been told when I applied for a government job that whites need not apply. That's not racism?

I have personally been told by a Chinese tenant in my building that I should move because I'm not Chinese, despite the fact that I not he was born here. That's not racism? Do you honestly believe a white person could get away with saying the reverse and not be sued blind?

And even in the US where the legal language is more fairly worded, many companies, in an effort to ensure they're not viewed as racist or such, will actively bend over backwards giving preferential treatment to visible minorities. This kind of practice only serves as reverse racism.

Well, reverse racism is simply racism, period. I can appreciate you may not perceive it as such from your perspective and racial background Juan, but to say "it does not follow" just doesn't pass the litmus test. Whites especially males are now being victimized in society for something they didn't do. It was wrong when blacks and other minorities were being victimized, and it's just as wrong coming back the other way. Two wrongs don't make a right, and creating a new class of victims only serves to continue the problem.

After a few generations of this, what will you expect whites to say when it all comes out in the wash? "We had it good for a while, then we had our just desserts and everything's cool?" Or rather, "We've been shit on for generations and we're pissed..."

The only way for the whole thing to end is to make everyone equal, period. No affirmative action, no reverse racism. Just make everyone stand on their own two feet and let them succeed based on that.

Juan.©amaney

it does not follow because racism is wrong no matter what.

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Krasch

Well on that I certainly agree. Of course it's wrong no matter what.

At the same time, I think even you'd have to agree it's politically correct to be racist against whites these days.

Juan.©amaney

To who? True believers in political correctness are racist at heart. Instead of worrying about whether or not to call someone white or black, how about learning the dude's name? But that's besides the point. What you are asking is whether it is politically correct to be racist against whites, and I say no. Take a read through any group like NAACP and MEChA and the likes. They don't exclude any race from joining. They just suggest you support the cause.

Shit, I'm a member of SWE (society of women engineers) and I don't have a cunt.

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Krasch

I totally agree that true believers of political correctness are racist at heart.

That being said, if you're actually of the belief that it's not politically correct to be racist against whites these days, I'd say you're being a touch myopic. I've already given evidence that it in fact does. I'm sure others could give similar experiences.

Now of course you won't find any such language in an NAACP leaflet or position paper, as they'd likely be sued blind if they were careless enough to actually print it.

And MAYBE things are much different in the US than here in Canada, but somehow I doubt it. One need only note the largely successful effort at historical revisionism of Columbus' discovery of the New World to see yet more evidence.

But I'm not surprised you don't see it from your perspective and background. I'm sure there were many whites in the 60's who didn't think we didn't really have racism against blacks back in the day, those who thought that their struggle for equality was just a bunch of rabble-rousers.

So in the end, it appears we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Juan.©amaney

I don't see it because I read rules and bylaws and understand them. My color has nothing to do with it.

A club is set up to follow the rules. The members can then run that club into the ground with breaking the rules all they want.

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