Women? Why do we hate them?

[ddoubleez]

So, on a male dominated site, it would be intresting to ask why we hate women? Why do so many women encounter violence and/or oppression?

[Juan.Camaney]

I don't hate women. I love them. Do you hate women, ddoubleez? I hope not. Women give birth to the human race. Women are beautiful. Women are intelligent.

[PMBalls]

So, did Juan sock puppet this screenname after she got banned or something?

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

I don't hate women. I love them. Do you hate women, ddoubleez? I hope not. Women give birth to the human race. Women are beautiful. Women are intelligent.

Statistically, over half the women polled have fought off rape... Over one third have been raped.... More than half report psychological attacks...

For most of this countries history women could not vote, and almost as much time slaves were given a greater consideration than women....

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration....

We do not have to mention that women typically get paid 60% of what a man gets for the same role and performance.... It should also be noted that women are enslaved at a higher rate then men....

[fmb]

Points taken, deez. My question for those women suffering what you've listed would be: why did you put up with that shit? The bastard had to sleep at some point. Where was your shovel? A heavy rock?

[Krasch]

Originally Posted by ddoubleez

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration...

If you mean by this that they have to stay on the corporate ladder to get ahead, then it's perfectly correct.

Why should someone who takes time away from their career to have kids and raise a family be given equal standing next to someone else, male or female, who has not? They haven't put in the same amount of time, so they shouldn't be given a free pass just because they have kids.

Fact is, mostly it's women who choose to get off that ladder so naturally they'll be at a disadvantage versus those people who don't. And even then we bend over backward to accommodate them as much possible, when any male who chose the same route to raise his kids at home would not get a fraction of the same consideration.

We don't hate women, quite the opposite. We cut them more slack than any man would ever get.

[Juan.Camaney]

Originally Posted by ddoubleez

Statistically, over half the women polled have fought off rape... Over one third have been raped.... More than half report psychological attacks...

For most of this countries history women could not vote, and almost as much time slaves were given a greater consideration than women....

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration....

We do not have to mention that women typically get paid 60% of what a man gets for the same role and performance.... It should also be noted that women are enslaved at a higher rate then men....

First, fuck statistics. They can be fucked with to prove whatever anyone wants to prove.

Women get raped because men are less desirable to be raped. Who wants to rape a dude unless you are in prison? Men get psychologically attacked all the time, we just don't report it because we just take it.

Men could not vote in the past because they did not make money. Simple. Did men want women who were not even a representable number in the work force voting along side of them? No. It should be like that (no income no vote) now too, but whatever...

There are plenty of women in power if you are willing to look. Don't feed us this 70's tripe, guy. Women can run for office and have for a very long time. They vote, they lead, they're equal. They adopt the roles they need to in order to surive as such. What exactly are the roles men would adopt if all women were in charge? Knitting? Give me a break here, we broke gender roles a long time ago.

That women get paid 60% line is bullshit too. Women take more sick time. Women take maternity leave. Women have "women problems" that employers can't even question. They can't do physical labor like men can (explain differnt sized sports equipment to me if you are going to start debating this or why we have two winners at the marathons for women and men...they just aint equal). People get paid what they deserve and if women aren't willing to pull as much weight then they shouldn't be paid as much. FYI, my gf makes more money than I am and is 5 years younger. It does not bother me nor her. I don't take it as an attack on my ego and she doesn't throw it in my face. While I work 40 hour weeks, she puts in ~50-60. Also not my fault, I work public and cannot put in over time right now.

There are reasons for everything...statistics be damned.

[Krasch]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

That women get paid 60% line is bullshit too. Women take more sick time. Women take maternity leave. Women have "women problems" that employers can't even question. They can't do physical labor like men can (explain differnt sized sports equipment to me if you are going to start debating this or why we have two winners at the marathons for women and men...they just aint equal). People get paid what they deserve and if women aren't willing to pull as much weight then they shouldn't be paid as much. FYI, my gf makes more money than I am and is 5 years younger. It does not bother me nor her. I don't take it as an attack on my ego and she doesn't throw it in my face. While I work 40 hour weeks, she puts in ~50-60. Also not my fault, I work public and cannot put in over time right now.

There are reasons for everything...statistics be damned.

Exactly right. Why are there differing standards for acceptable performance in firefighting, the military, etc.

It's because if women in those fields were judged truly gender-neutral, to the same standard as men, they'd by and large fall flat on their face.

Women aren't hated, they're pandered to.

[Juan.Camaney]

and its not because we hate them, its because in a life threatening situation, if I had a choice between a 6'5" 250 lbs muscley man carrying my unconsious ass out of a fiery building or a 5'8" 145 lb woman who got the job because of quotas....yeah no, the dude.

Take those same people and put them into an office environment where all they use is their brain, then base it on performance and qualifications. Problem is, there are not enough women applying for jobs like this to be able to show real statistics that are indicative of what happens.

[Krasch]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

and its not because we hate them, its because in a life threatening situation, if I had a choice between a 6'5" 250 lbs muscley man carrying my unconsious ass out of a fiery building or a 5'8" 145 lb woman who got the job because of quotas....yeah no, the dude.

Take those same people and put them into an office environment where all they use is their brain, then base it on performance and qualifications. Problem is, there are not enough women applying for jobs like this to be able to show real statistics that are indicative of what happens.

Forget just carrying your unconscious ass there Juan, then there's the lengths of fire hose, ladders, oxygen tanks, other equipment etc.

Most women just can't compete on the same level in jobs like that. Sure there are exceptions like a Chyna or Beth Phoenix, but those are few and far between.

[Anibal]

Originally Posted by ddoubleez

Statistically, over half the women polled have fought off rape... Over one third have been raped.... More than half report psychological attacks...

For most of this countries history women could not vote, and almost as much time slaves were given a greater consideration than women....

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration....

We do not have to mention that women typically get paid 60% of what a man gets for the same role and performance.... It should also be noted that women are enslaved at a higher rate then men....

I think you are at least 20 years to late at least to be complaining about how hard it is for women.

Yes women couldnt vote, i cant imagine how hard life is when you cant vote...

Women as leaders hmmm the president of Chile is a woman, times are changing and women are not only having more chances but they are using them a lot better. I live in a "third world country" and last year the runner up on the nation elections was woman. I go to law school and more than 1/2 of allmost every class are women.

Statistics can say many things but in reality, on todays world a woman can get as much as she wants if she sets her mind straight and works hard for it. On the last 6 months at the firm where i do my internship they have hired 2 men and 4 women, simply because they did better in the interview.

Its common sense to hire the most qualified person for a job.

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by fmb

Points taken, deez. My question for those women suffering what you've listed would be: why did you put up with that shit? The bastard had to sleep at some point. Where was your shovel? A heavy rock?

Women go to prison for fighting back... It is estimated that 1/3 of women that are in prison for a violent crime, resisted someone that lives at the same address that they did..

There are a number of states that a woman can not even file charges against a spouse that rapes her. 40 years ago, no state would listen to woman that was raped by a spouse, it was considered a right of the husband.

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by Anibal

I think you are at least 20 years to late at least to be complaining about how hard it is for women.

Yes women couldnt vote, i cant imagine how hard life is when you cant vote...

Women as leaders hmmm the president of Chile is a woman, times are changing and women are not only having more chances but they are using them a lot better. I live in a "third world country" and last year the runner up on the nation elections was woman. I go to law school and more than 1/2 of allmost every class are women.

Statistics can say many things but in reality, on todays world a woman can get as much as she wants if she sets her mind straight and works hard for it. On the last 6 months at the firm where i do my internship they have hired 2 men and 4 women, simply because they did better in the interview.

Its common sense to hire the most qualified person for a job.

I would argue that women the only women being given oppertunity are giving men 'their due'. A woman does not make a position of importance unless she plays by a man's rules.

I would also argue that a woman can work as hard as she can, but only gets what men allow. As far as more women getting hired at your firm, did they do better in their interview, because they showed cleavage, or agree to a lower wage. And again, a man probably made the decision, so it probably was not for her skills.

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

and its not because we hate them, its because in a life threatening situation, if I had a choice between a 6'5" 250 lbs muscley man carrying my unconsious ass out of a fiery building or a 5'8" 145 lb woman who got the job because of quotas....yeah no, the dude.

Take those same people and put them into an office environment where all they use is their brain, then base it on performance and qualifications. Problem is, there are not enough women applying for jobs like this to be able to show real statistics that are indicative of what happens.

It is quite likely that women are convinced that they can not.

Men were convinced for over a decade that it was impossible to run a mile under 5 minutes. When someone finally overcame the perception, the record was broken numerous times very quickly...

Women maybe experincing simular pshyological opperssion.

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by Krasch

If you mean by this that they have to stay on the corporate ladder to get ahead, then it's perfectly correct.

Why should someone who takes time away from their career to have kids and raise a family be given equal standing next to someone else, male or female, who has not? They haven't put in the same amount of time, so they shouldn't be given a free pass just because they have kids.

Fact is, mostly it's women who choose to get off that ladder so naturally they'll be at a disadvantage versus those people who don't. And even then we bend over backward to accommodate them as much possible, when any male who chose the same route to raise his kids at home would not get a fraction of the same consideration.

We don't hate women, quite the opposite. We cut them more slack than any man would ever get.

No, that is not what I meant when said that, but thank for pointing out the need to clarify...

One easy example is, if a women is an in a position of power, she would have to sacrifice dignity. Give in to demeaning jokes or entertain senerios that demean of use others of her gender or even herself, or at the least tolerate them. She would have to watch other individuals of her gender be used to promote a product or idea.

Our society horribly objectifies women to make men money, any woman that tries to fight this paradigm will not succeed.