Dont approve of Blackwater? watch this

[FattyJJ]

Jeremy Scahill, who wrote the book Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army talks to CNN about Blackwater and other paid "security" services. I dont know how to imbed video, sorry.



http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_i...zQBk2mDO&rel=0

[ddoubleez]

[ddoubleez]

Nice job fatty.........

Before everyone gets upset at you for posting this, lets include the fact that they have already killed US soldiers... And they make more in a month than the US soldiers do in a year....

They were the same group that open-fired on blacks in New Orleans that were waiting for help.........

Here is a national geographic that is fairly ballanced on the subject:

part 1:



Part due:



Part 3:



part 4:



Part 5:

[fmb]

I think many in the USA forget we (at one time) had a very large standing army. Large armies serve many purposes; they allow large scale military campaigns, allow campaigns to be conducted in multiple areas at the same time, and allow for placement of "boots on the ground" to occupy areas after the enemy is driven away or surrenders.

This ability comes with a problem; it costs lots of cash dollars to train, equip, and supply armies of this size. A decade and a half ago our country slashed military budgets and built a more technically advanced and mobile fighting force. This is great for the quick "run in and and secure" events, but is worthless for securing conquered/surrendered/contested areas.

How do you make soldiers available to perform these tasks? Contracting diplomatic details, logistics and supply functions, and anything else not requiring a person with an MOS (military occupational specialty) designation frees soldiers to shoot people.

The Blackwater guys are great; I've worked on some projects with a few, but like anything else, when you grow too fast there is not much time to properly research the background of some applicants. The military has a judicial system for our men and women in uniform to handle things when soldiers go awry; the government (US and Iraqi), as well as the UN should be doing something to hold groups providing said services to generally accepted standards. Thankfully, today Congress has passed just such legislation. Everyone should have someone to answer to...

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by fmb

I think many in the USA forget we (at one time) had a very large standing army. Large armies serve many purposes; they allow large scale military campaigns, allow campaigns to be conducted in multiple areas at the same time, and allow for placement of "boots on the ground" to occupy areas after the enemy is driven away or surrenders.

This ability comes with a problem; it costs lots of cash dollars to train, equip, and supply armies of this size. A decade and a half ago our country slashed military budgets and built a more technically advanced and mobile fighting force. This is great for the quick "run in and and secure" events, but is worthless for securing conquered/surrendered/contested areas.

How do you make soldiers available to perform these tasks? Contracting diplomatic details, logistics and supply functions, and anything else not requiring a person with an MOS (military occupational specialty) designation frees soldiers to shoot people.

The Blackwater guys are great; I've worked on some projects with a few, but like anything else, when you grow too fast there is not much time to properly research the background of some applicants. The military has a judicial system for our men and women in uniform to handle things when soldiers go awry; the government (US and Iraqi), as well as the UN should be doing something to hold groups providing said services to generally accepted standards. Thankfully, today Congress has passed just such legislation. Everyone should have someone to answer to...

So you feel that we should employ mercenaries, that we pay 10x better than we do our own military, while our soldiers can't even get the care they need back home.......

I am glad your experience was positive, but you clearly don't understand what is happening, nor have you questioned the rhetoric you are spewing...
Forgive me, but how do you justify paying private armies more money than our soldiers, while we lead our own into combat without the minimum protective armor....... And how can you justify mercenaries our numbering our own soldiers?

Also, don't you see a problem with this system, if it is luring soldiers away from service to work as a contractor?

[Juan.Camaney]

Mercenaries have been around since the begining of war. Sometimes, you have to kill people. Sometimes you get paid.

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by Juan.©amaney

Mercenaries have been around since the begining of war. Sometimes, you have to kill people. Sometimes you get paid.

Yes, but not to this level.... Nor have they been for security INSTEAD of our military......

Man Bush chose to lead Pentagon contracting probes left under fire to become Blackwater COO
Jason Rhyne and Nick Juliano
Published: Tuesday October 2, 2007



The private security firm Blackwater USA, which has faced mounting criticism following an incident earlier this month in which armed guards from the group purportedly killed 11 unarmed Iraqi civilians, has numerous links to the White House as well as many current and former Republicans.

The connections include the firm's chief operating officer Joseph Schmitz, who was tapped by President Bush in 2002 to "oversee and police the Pentagon's military contracts as the Defense Department's Inspector General."

The relevation was first reported by Ben Van Heuvelen in Salon.

Serving until 2005, Schmitz went on to preside over "the largest increase of military-contracting spending in history" and joined Blackwater just a month after his departure from the Pentagon, according to Van Heuvelen.

"The resignation comes after Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) sent Schmitz several letters this summer informing him that he was the focus of a congressional inquiry into whether he had blocked two criminal investigations last year," according to a 2005 article in the LA Times

Erik Prince, Blackwater's founder, who has donated "roughly $300,000 to Republican candidates and political action committees. Through his Freiheit Foundation, he also gave $500,000 to Prison Fellowship Ministries, run by former Nixon official Charles Colson, in 2000."

J. Cofer Black, Blackwater Vice Chairman, a 28-year veteran of the CIA Van Heuvelen describes as "one of the more prominent faces associated with the Bush administration's interrogation and extraordinary rendition policies." Black is also a senior adviser to GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

Rob Richer, Vice President for Intelligence, who is the former head of the CIA Near East Division. "In 2003," according to Salon "he briefed President Bush on the nascent Iraqi insurgency. In late 2004, he became the associate deputy director in the CIA's Directorate of Operations, making him the second-ranking official for clandestine operations."

Fred Fielding, a former outside counsel for the firm, who "has had a long career as a lawyer to prominent Republicans. From 1970 to 1972, he was an associate White House counsel in the Nixon administration; from 1972 to 1974, he was present for the denouement of that administration as deputy White House counsel." Fielding is a former counsel to President Reagan and current White House counsel to President Bush.

Ken Starr, another counsel to Blackwater, who was hired by the firm in 2006, is best known "as the Independent Counsel who investigated Bill Clinton. He revealed the intimate details of Clinton's affair with intern Monica Lewinsky in the infamous Starr Report and set in motion Clinton's impeachment by Congress."

[Raymond Babbit]

I think an important pont to make here is that one of the last things Paul Bremer did before leaving Iraq was to sign a law making US contracters essentially outside of Iraqi jurisdiction. It seems to me that, if we didn't think that our contracters were doing anything illegal, there would be no reason for this law to pass.

Also, until the law passed today, the only contractors that were accountable in US courts were those contracted by the DOD. Blackwater is contracted by the State Department.

And the whole mercenary thing...............correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that illegal, under international law? Nevermind the fact that someone associated with Blackwater was one of Pinochet's top generals, who was recently indicted for.......I believe it was war crimes.

And yeah, the fact that they get paid more per year than most of our military should be an issue as well.

[ddoubleez]

Blackwater Hearing: Waxman's Opening

[fmb]

DDz's:

I'll ask you to reread and rethink the post I made. In no way, shape, or form do I agree with use of the large numbers of private security contractors to perform tasks with a generally acceptable military responsibility. I listed the reasons to have and sustain a large military force and what happens when a nation decides not to staff and sustain a large military force and conduct operations requiring large military forces (causing the need for contractors).

Do these guys get paid much more than our military forces? Yes; this is market forces at work, as our military competes with the private sector to recruit from a very limited pool of qualified candidates. If our government funded the military required of a superpower that decides to conduct operations on multiple fronts (didn't work well for Napoleon or Hitler) while providing security for other nations, ie Germany and South Korea, we would not have this discussion. We are a superpower attempting to project our power in the cheapest way possible.

Do I believe our returning, wounded forces should receive the best military care? Yes. Has our country devoted the money and resources required to provide the medical resources to meet the needs of our returning heroes? Hell no. The VA was (and is)underfunded, understaffed, and overwhelmed by the numbers of returning soldiers with long term medical needs.

I understand the reasons, the situation, and the cause of this much more than you may ever realize. The Blackwater (and KBR, Haliburton) guys I've dealt with have not been in Iraq or Afgahnistan and are working on security and emergency management issues within our borders.

Please read my first post again; I think you'll see I have much in agreement with you.

[fmb]

Raymond Babbit:

For a vast majority of your statement "mercenaries are illegal under international law" is correct; you have hit the key point as to why the US government calls these companies "private security contractors". It's not what they do, but what you call them (apparently) that makes them legal or illegal.

Some years back, a small African country was catching hell from guerillas, insurgents, terrorists, or whatever the term of the day was. The country asked for UN military assistance and was refused; anyway, the country hired a man and a company to assist their military with fixing the problem of kidnappings and oil production infrastructure destruction.

In a couple of weeks, about one thousand men were hired and flown in to assit with an intense training program for the country's military forces. In about two weeks (or so) these guys and the military forces cleared the house of the bullshit assholes causing the problems. Remember, the UN had their chance to help, but chose to not participate and help these people. The country hired folks to help and succeeded. In the end, the UN had on its face and decided to outlaw the use of mercenary forces.

It's all politics, plain and simple.

[ddoubleez]

I should not have been so obscure........

[fmb]

DDzs:

I took a complex issue and minimized the quantity and quality of the response required to convey my thoughts about the quagmire our country, military, and citizens are in. Thank you for the posting, as this gave me a chance to clarify my original intent.

This was political bullshit for: I didn't explain myself as well as I would have liked; I appreciated the reply so I could better explain myself.

Ahh... good old political doublespeak. I worked as an aid to a politically appointed public safety official. What does that mean? I drove him to meetings, was privy to information not in the public domain, and learned that politicians (whether Republican or Democrat) only care about re-election. A good thing I learned was how to tell the bastards what he/she was doing was not in the best interest of the public and was bullshit. Occasionally, when I was going abit too far, my guy would tap his foot on mine to let me know I reached my limit. On the way to the station he would laugh his butt off about the looks on their faces and replies.

Politicians are assholes, all of them.

[ddoubleez]

Originally Posted by fmb

DDzs:

I took a complex issue and minimized the quantity and quality of the response required to convey my thoughts about the quagmire our country, military, and citizens are in. Thank you for the posting, as this gave me a chance to clarify my original intent.

This was political bullshit for: I didn't explain myself as well as I would have liked; I appreciated the reply so I could better explain myself.

Ahh... good old political doublespeak. I worked as an aid to a politically appointed public safety official. What does that mean? I drove him to meetings, was privy to information not in the public domain, and learned that politicians (whether Republican or Democrat) only care about re-election. A good thing I learned was how to tell the bastards what he/she was doing was not in the best interest of the public and was bullshit. Occasionally, when I was going abit too far, my guy would tap his foot on mine to let me know I reached my limit. On the way to the station he would laugh his butt off about the looks on their faces and replies.

Politicians are assholes, all of them.

Mark Twain said something to the effect:

I would never vote for president, because no one will ever run that deserves my vote..........

We do agree on more than I thought.... I was too far into the scotch to keep from making a fool of myself last night.....

One point that I would like to make is that I don't believe in privatization in the military on any level..... That is my opinion and I have many points of view to back it up if you are curious.....

I also hope you know that we would have a larger standing army, if we cut out the corruption in the military complex..... The pentagon 'looses' hundreds of billions of dollars per year....... We spend the same on military as ALL OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED, but have a force that is threatened by China... It just does not make sence..............

So again, sorry, I had more to drink at the moment than I should speaking about such an important topic............

And I am with you about not approving of either side..... Democrats are not liberal nor are republicans conservative anymore.... Cointelpro destroyed our government, and no one cares until gas gets expensive or they think they are going to have to pay more taxes.........


Thanks!

[Tairos]

Yes, but not to this level.... Nor have they been for security INSTEAD of our military......

Totally wrong. Up until relatively recently, mercenary armies were the norm, not the exception. National armies didn't come into being at any appreciable level until the 17th century.