2nd Amendment - Slipping away

[CD]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

Great, so don't hold it or have a bunch in your house. But just because you are uninterested and ignorant doesn't mean some well qualified person can't have access to it for his own use in whatever he does. Same with other firearms. Just because you are uncomfortable with it doesn't give you the power to strip anyone of their rights to keep it which are GURANTEED. We aren't talking having some control, here, these people want to basically have every single shell lazer inscribed and tabs being kept on everything. If they want to do that, and put the effort to something so unimportant, why not do that with stuff that is really a problem, like keep track of every cent spent in their departments, keep track of every illegal alien, etc etc. Funny how they have enough money to do this but not enough money to do the same thing for other more important problems.

I would LOVE to see them spend more manpower and resources into more important things! It's a vendetta that certain people in power have. I like discussing these things with you because a lot of your counterpoints open my eyes to things I never realized or heard about. Look, I am not a fan of government snooping over my shoulder, and I think that a lot of the gun control laws are aimed at that. I oppose those laws.

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

Don't be stupid. Any responsible gun owner knows what is good for self defense, home defense, hunting, and for show. Just like you couldn't be able to drive a 2500 HP jet fueled ricer on the street, but are more than welcome to drive it on a closed road under the provisions of whatever racing league you want to follow (if any at all), I should be able to go buy an AK-47, pick up some rounds, take it to the range, and blow up watermelons for my own fucking amusement. We should preach gun education, not simply start banning shit some dick face in office who probably hasn't even fired a gun thinks I should be able to own. What if someone came into your house and told you you can not own any of the swords you love? They told you you could only own something small, like a nail clipper, for your own safety? Would you like that?

Key word is responsible. Since when have people in this country been responsible? I will agree with you though... I really would like to pick up an AK-47 and lay waste to a few watermelons. I am also a big fan of gun education, but unless it's taught in schools, it would be hard to teach kids with anti-gun parents (hell, with those parents it'd be hard to teach them IN school). I do see your point though... I love my swords, but I consider them art more then defense. The person who dares break into my place though will strongly disagree with me.

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

1. ... we disagree, CD...
2. Werd.
3. Excessive? To me this makes more sense. Prints on my application can pinpoint me in a crime pretty easily. Guns really are a sloppy way to commit crimes, they leave evidence.
4. Do you have a common name? I do. Do you know how many people with my name get into trouble? Do you know how faulty the system we have in place is in differentiating between those idiots and me? Background checks are fine if the system worked.
5. Even 7 days is stupid. I can kill more people with my truck than I can with any of my guns, and I can go pick up a truck right fucking now.
6. 100 shots goes by pretty quick, brother. You ever try to shoot a moving target? Again, the 100 shot capacity would not be needed for home protection. A shot gun with bird shot is enough for that. Here in CA they limit caps on pistols. That nice 15 round I have for my 9 mm...yeah, illegal to be sold now a days. Mostly everything is limited to like 7 or some such bullshit.
7. It shouldn't be up to the city. Its a right guranteed by the US Constitution. To put this into perspective, we have a city around here called Reseda. They banned certain small caliber guns (saturday night specials). So in order for me to get my sub compact from one city to the other, I have to go around Reseda. Comon sense does not prevail.

3) Good point. But a GOOD criminal will wear gloves and still be able to frame someone.
4) Let's fix the system. I don't think I've ever been a fan of keeping a broken system.
5) Someone who wants to commit murder can also kill someone with their bare hands. But it's easier with a gun since it's easier to hide, dispose of, and conceal. Anyway, everything can be a weapon. It's just that a car was never originally designed to kill.
7) Good point... I'll concede the city, but I still win with the school system. That "right" doesn't go inside the school.

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

I can fit a high cap mag on the mini and shoot just a fast as the AR dude. There is no difference other than grip.

I'm not a gun expert, so I'll take your word on the Mini.

[Car Enthusiast]

the reason my AR isn't a hunting rifle is because it is banned from being a hunting rifle in Ohio, if it wasn't banned then I could use it to hunt and gun control groups couldn't demonize it so easily, but there are states where you can hunt with high powered rifles and AR's (assault rifle) are used to hunt. Actually they say a high powered rifle is more humane to hunt with since it is more likely to instantly kill the game instead of letting it suffer and have to be tracked and bleed out. Really there isn't much different from an assault rifle than a regular hunting rifle as Juan said. I am just tired of my hobby being attacked because some lame ass politician can't get elected by coming up with fixes to real problems and have to go after the easy issues to scare people into thinking they will get something accomplished

[Juan.Camaney]

Great thread guys.

[licupssy]

Originally Posted by Car Enthusiast

the reason my AR isn't a hunting rifle is because it is banned from being a hunting rifle in Ohio, if it wasn't banned then I could use it to hunt and gun control groups couldn't demonize it so easily, but there are states where you can hunt with high powered rifles and AR's (assault rifle) are used to hunt. Actually they say a high powered rifle is more humane to hunt with since it is more likely to instantly kill the game instead of letting it suffer and have to be tracked and bleed out. Really there isn't much different from an assault rifle than a regular hunting rifle as Juan said. I am just tired of my hobby being attacked because some lame ass politician can't get elected by coming up with fixes to real problems and have to go after the easy issues to scare people into thinking they will get something accomplished

Living in PA, we have the same restrictions on semi-automatic weapons. I was brought up by an avid hunter and have been hunting since I was 12. I also so spent almost every weekend at the gun club with my father since I was discharged from the Navy until he died a few years back.

If you ever spent the two weekends before deer season at a shooting range, you realize there is good cause not allowing semi-automatic rifles be used for hunting. Every year you get a new group of young guys on the range usually with new Remington pumps. Some would listen to range officers and get their rifle on paper, others on the other hand run through a hundred rounds an never cut a 3 foot square piece of paper with a bullet. Could you imagine these guys spraying the woods with AR-15 rifles. Pity the poor deer that get out in an open field around these guys.

True, you can probably kill just about anything with the AR-15 if you're proficient enough. But it's really too light for hunting in the woods and in PA I've see of a deer doing a dance caused by gun fire on the top a hill in an open field during doe season. After being missed by about 60 rounds the deer ran off. Which was good since I hate to have seen the fight between all the guys that would have claimed they shot it. Imagine the number of rounds fired if they were all using AR-15 rifles.

In states highly populated like PA you have to consider the danger to not only other hunters but to peoples homes were bullets that can travel a mile could be peppered by the likes of these hunters. It be more sensible to take a trip out west we're you have miles of open fields and can shot prairie dogs to your hearts content.

[Krasch]

Originally Posted by CD

I would LOVE to see them spend more manpower and resources into more important things! It's a vendetta that certain people in power have. I like discussing these things with you because a lot of your counterpoints open my eyes to things I never realized or heard about. Look, I am not a fan of government snooping over my shoulder, and I think that a lot of the gun control laws are aimed at that. I oppose those laws.

Agreed, Big Brother does enough snooping as it is.

Key word is responsible. Since when have people in this country been responsible? I will agree with you though... I really would like to pick up an AK-47 and lay waste to a few watermelons. I am also a big fan of gun education, but unless it's taught in schools, it would be hard to teach kids with anti-gun parents (hell, with those parents it'd be hard to teach them IN school). I do see your point though... I love my swords, but I consider them art more then defense. The person who dares break into my place though will strongly disagree with me.

I too own a sword, and consider it both art and a means of defense. And I pity the crook who decides to break into my place, at least up to the point I carve him into sushi.

3) Good point. But a GOOD criminal will wear gloves and still be able to frame someone.
4) Let's fix the system. I don't think I've ever been a fan of keeping a broken system.
5) Someone who wants to commit murder can also kill someone with their bare hands. But it's easier with a gun since it's easier to hide, dispose of, and conceal. Anyway, everything can be a weapon. It's just that a car was never originally designed to kill.
7) Good point... I'll concede the city, but I still win with the school system. That "right" doesn't go inside the school.

Doubly agreed. Kids may have the right to bear arms under the Constitution, but that doesn't mean they can or should be allowed to bring them to school. The other students' right to a safe learning environment supersedes a kid's right to bear arms.

I'm not a gun expert, so I'll take your word on the Mini.

[CD]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

Great thread guys.

I have to agree. This one is my new favorite thread.

[bobburgster]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobburgster View Post
As you can see, there is a lot of onterpretation that has alreay taken plane.

Did it fly coach or business class?

Juan, I was doing well...nodding my head in agreement, until I came t this one.
No idea what you meant.

[bobburgster]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobburgster View Post
My biased opinion( Why is it biased, because it doesn't agree with your opinion?) was formed by many sources of information, both pro and con, over many years.

Opinions are biased, brother, that's just the way it is. Facts are facts, opinions, are not.

Not true Juan.

Bias: "a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation"

An opinion can be biased, but doesn't have to be.

I've been teaching photography for some 20 years, and also have been involved in the on-line photographic community for at least that long. In hundreds of face-to-face discussions about equipment choices during my workshops and seminars and at conferences, no one has ever failed to be reasoned and polite. Disagreements? Of course. Loads of them, and some quite heated. But never has anyone said anything insulting, or told me that I was biased.
But online such behavior appears to be the norm rather than the exception. Why?...because the topics discussed are usually emotional and/or controversial.

[Car Enthusiast]

When it comes to guns, someone can come up with a seemingly excellent point to one side of this issue that makes sense or a scenario played out supports their way of thinking and then the other side can come back and do the same thing. So I always have to go to statistics or what has happened in the real world when someones agenda's are put to the test. Does anyone know the stats on how many LEGALLY obtained assault weapons were used in a crime? I know people say that gun crimes are out of control but I do not agree with that, I know here in Ohio it is becoming less frequent to hear of a crime with a firearm anymore. I mean it still happens, but I don't think it is fair to talk ban or restriction or gun control when there are larger problems out there to start the process of taking a right away from people who feel gun ownership is okay. If someone wants to talk about punishments for people who commit guns crimes great and am with you on that, lets get it hammered out and figure out the details. As a gun owner I am always on the defense because there isn't a compromise from the gun control activists. It may sound like a compromise but when it comes down to it, it comes down to me not being able to keep a firearm, or enjoy my hobby or protect myself.

[Juan.Camaney]

Originally Posted by bobburgster

Quote:
Juan, I was doing well...nodding my head in agreement, until I came t this one.
No idea what you meant.

Read what I quoted. I was making a joke about a typo.

[supersatch]

I've yet to meet the mass-murderer that used .50 cal bullets. Just though I'd point that out...CALIFORNIA!!!

[Juan.Camaney]

Originally Posted by supersatch

I've yet to meet the mass-murderer that used .50 cal bullets. Just though I'd point that out...CALIFORNIA!!!

People call them soldiers.

[supersatch]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

People call them soldiers.

Did you reciently move to Berkeley, Juan?

[joerockhead]

Originally Posted by Juan.Camaney

People call them soldiers.

You really need to take that back. joking or not, that is not a funny comment.

[Krasch]

Originally Posted by joerockhead

You really need to take that back. joking or not, that is not a funny comment.

Agreed, I almost neg rep'd that one.

Even if you don't agree with where we send them or why, those people have willingly chosen to go into harm's way and get shot at to protect the rights we get to enjoy. Mocking them is just wrong.