Contact Lenses....Cheating??

[koЯnut]

This is sort of a long read. But if you kinda skim then you will pick up on what I'm talking about.

http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/stan-mcneal/20050421-p.html

So I ask you guys this...Is this considerd cheating the game?

I will comment later.

[stphnsn]

it's not cheating until they get banned.

[michaeljohn]

not cheating now, never in a million years.

[koЯnut]

Fair enough. Not cheating. I disagree with you guys. But don't you think this is an advantage over players of yesteryear and pitcher's today? Just seems unfair to me.

These new contacts are made for one purpose. Let the batter see the seams on the ball more clearly to determine the type of pitch being thrown. I just don't see how that is fair.

:dunno:

[michaeljohn]

well, if it were not fair, it would be outlawed by now. seems steroids and gambling on own team are more of a problem.

[skept]

I'm with fin on this one. Steroids extend the persons ability to play beyond that which is normal. Gambling on own team creates a sense of unfairness in teh system as the team mates can then lose and make big dividends.

Now as to the contact lenses, they arent cheating - it is still up to the skill of the batter to hit the actual ball and pick which type it is. I'm assuming these contact lenses will be available to everyone - and that will only mean that the game of baseball will be played as if the conditions were 'ideal'. Thus unlike a team on steroids v a team that is clean, everyone will have the same advantage by using these contact lenses, as in no way will it increases ones ability to play beyond the normal. (ie: if a batter sucks at hitting homers even if he/she has these lenses i can almost 100% gaurantee he/she will suck at hitting them after they apply the lenses)

[koЯnut]

as in no way will it increases ones ability to play beyond the normal. (ie: if a batter sucks at hitting homers even if he/she has these lenses i can almost 100% gaurantee he/she will suck at hitting them after they apply the lenses)


Explain Brian Roberts of the Baltimore Orioles to me then. He is one of the two known players to start using these new Contacts.

2004 (159 Games played)

107 Runs
175 Hits
4 HR
53 RBI
.273 BA

2005 (27 Games Played) *Also with Amber Contacts*

24 Runs
42 Hits
8 HR
27 RBI
.372 BA

As you can see in just 27 games this season he has already doubled his HR's, halfed his RBI, and is hitting 100 points higher in BA.

This isn't a sophomore baseball player who just found his groove. He's been playing for five seasons.


If they didn't enhance play then why the hell would Nike produce them. Batters see the balls seam far more clearly. Just another instance of technology damaging the soul of the game. Harder Bats, harder balls, shorter fields, and now, Amber Contact Lenses.

[michaeljohn]

to be considered cheating, it must violate a rule. don't let this thread go nuts as when you tried to redefine the meaning of the word virgin!

[michaeljohn]

cheating=violation of a rule. maybe what this will lead to is a rules revision
virginity=coitus, penis inserted into vagina. blowjob's do not make a girl lose her virginity. she just becomes sexually experienced.

[koЯnut]

Well Fin, I am past the cheating statement and have moved on to the unfair. Unfair to pitchers and to players of yeasterday (as far as stats go). It's a new product. There is a good chance that it could be banned in the years to come.

[koЯnut]

virginity=coitus, penis inserted into vagina. blowjob's do not make a girl lose her virginity. she just becomes sexually experienced.


Haha...funny. We really don't wanna open that can of worms again do we?

[michaeljohn]

there are plenty of things "unfair" in baseball. basketball, hockey and football have standard playing fields. Baseball parks may tailor there own to fit their team. Look at Yankee Stadium! Short distance to right field! Should Babe Ruth lose about 200 home runs he hit to right field that would have been outs if all fields were the same? Astro turf vs natural grass. what about electronic devices, cameras, etc that are used to gather intelligence?

Usually if things are unfair, they change the rules. Not always a smart move. Ask Wilt Chamberlain. well, don't he is dead. but it was his dominance that led them to widen the 3 second key. Or ask Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar). they outlawed dunking in college hoops when he played at UCLA to keep him from being so dominant. Dumb move, he perfected his jump shot and sky hook.

[koЯnut]

Soooo, you agree with me that these are "unfair".

[Bigeme]

its only unfair if someone gains an advantage that the other player can't have. The pitcher can wear the contacts if he want. his team can wear them when they are batting. Hell the pitcher already has an advantage over the batter and seriously how many people do you think can pick up what kind of pitch is being thrown at 75+ mph just because they are wearing sunglasses? would it be unfair if they wore amber sunglasses to bat?

[koЯnut]

its only unfair if someone gains an advantage that the other player can't have. The pitcher can wear the contacts if he want.


How does this benefit the pitcher?


Look, call me old school, but like I said before, technology is killing the game's name. Williams, Gherig, Mantle, Mays, Aaron and players of those era's didn't get this edge. It's not about human abilities. It's about which product will make that person produce. And that is wrong.

I know sports will always evolve. I know players will always get bigger, stronger, and faster. But it takes away from the games anyway you look at it.

Take me back to the good ol days where a hitter rubbed some dirt in his hands, grabbed a bat with no batting gloves on, and went up there and ripped a double on his own. No technology, no enhancments. Just human ability.

[michaeljohn]

Soooo, you agree with me that these are "unfair".
contact lenses are not unfair. maybe the players of today have better diets and thus are bettering the ability of
the players of geerations past. Maybe fewer players smoke or chew tobacco now and thus perform better. Using contact
lenses that help them see better, help them play better. What about the balls being souped up, is this unfair to pitchers?

Every player is affected by countless things. Most teams can't match the Yankees spending ability, yet it is allowed.

It is easy to call unfair when your team doesn't win. It is smart to do things that help your team win.

[koЯnut]

Fin, you do know that these aren't regular run of the muck everyday contacts right??

Diet is something that a person controls. This is something man made to help a player to see the rotation on a baseball better.

[michaeljohn]

Fin, you do know that these aren't regular run of the muck everyday contacts right??

Diet is something that a person controls. This is something man made to help a player to see the rotation on a baseball better.
so, I just don't see how this is unfair. time and technology change many things. Want to put an asterisk next to the
statistics of every player who wears them? Holy Roger Maris! What a task!

[koЯnut]

Jesus......no no. I guess all the hard work that players of the past put in means nothing because technology will make there records go away.

I guess we should just start letting the players use aluminum bats too right.

[michaeljohn]

I don't understand where you are going with this. there is no way to measure all the variables that affect the game year in and year out so as to say which records mean something and which don't! Maybe the older players had avantages to help them earn their stats that newer players don't have!

Suffice it to say, if something is determined to be unfair, it will be outlawed. Until then, campaigning here will do nothing to rectify it.

[koЯnut]

Until then, campaigning here will do nothing to rectify it.


Okay. WTF! Isn't this a discussion forum?? Obviously I'm not the only one who thinks this is bogus. It's been on Outside The Lines on ESPN and I've seen two different articles about it.

I'm not trying to "rectify" anything. I had a topic that I was curious about others opinion. I really don't know why you are acting like you are Fin. I always have respected you, and never have questioned a topic you brought up. But whatever.

If it's really bugging you that bad just close this up. I was hoping to get some opinion's about it becuase I am a old school baseball kind of guy.


Changing rules to make more money isn't fair. Baseball wants high production. That is to keep the fans watching. And with that they let this shit slide.

[koЯnut]

One more thing...I'm pretty sure The Babe hit homeruns in Boston when he played for the Sox. Down the line, yes Yankee stadium did favor lefties. But you don't pull the ball everytime you hit it. 490 to dead center. 4 fuckin 90.

I'm talking about natural ability.

[michaeljohn]

Babe was a pitcher in Boston, he didn't hit many homers early in his career. not trying to be a pest to you about this, I just didn't understand the argument here. Also, was thinking, maybe early players had the benefit of growing up in, and playing in smog-free environments, maybe the old generation played better in fresh air.

To many, baseball is boring, simply because of lack of action. Stats say odds are in favor of each batter making an out. It takes a rally, a few breaks, smart fielding and baserunning, and of course good pitching to win a game. If contact lenses allow players to hit better, maybe the new action in the game will draw more fans. Baseball does have a lot of competition now from other sports. Last time they talked of a strike, the fans pretty much told them that would break the straw in the camels back.

Don't know why more people are and aren't making an issue of this. This thread was the first I ever heard of it. If more players show marked improvements using lenses, more people will take notice. I am more or less turned off by pro sports. I used to follow it closely, now I just read results in the paper to keep up to date.

I am done, maybe others will add to this thread. No one really has, at least I tried.

[adrenaline]

I hear what both sides are saying.. And yes its not cheating until banned.. and they might get an unfair advantage.
however these lenses are available for everyone right? If they are only available for a select few then i would see where the problem would lie. Until then the players are still the ones who have to throw, catch and swing the bat.. the lenses aren't gonna do that for ya!

[koЯnut]

True that Ruth pitched early in his career but the Babe started to get his stroke in the year before the big trade. I think he hit 29 homers or something like that. Another thing about the Babe is that the guy was belting dinger's while sucking down Cuban's and scarfing on Pizza Pie's. No diet, no discipline. That's just raw talent. He didn't need technology to help his game.

True that most nowadays find baseball boring. I watch because I am a fan. But I wish things were like they were in it's glory days. I guess thats why this bugs me so much. If I was a player I would want everyone to measure my success on my natural ability.

Like I stated before. Brian oberts of the O's is wearing the New Amber Contacts. The guy was AL player of the month. And he's not slowing down. This is a guy that has been in the league for five years and never hit over 5 HR in a season. He has eight after one month.

If you told the batters in the MLB, okay....there's a new surgery that pitcher's can have that tighten's the tendent in the pitcher's elbow allowing him to throw 5-10 MPH faster and put ever more hook on a curveball. How do you think hitter's would respond. And don't laugh....this surgery is in the works.

Technology. Ruining baseball. That is my point.