Women? Why do we hate them?

[ddoubleez]

So, on a male dominated site, it would be intresting to ask why we hate women? Why do so many women encounter violence and/or oppression?

[Juan.Camaney]

I don't hate women. I love them. Do you hate women, ddoubleez? I hope not. Women give birth to the human race. Women are beautiful. Women are intelligent.

[PMBalls]

So, did Juan sock puppet this screenname after she got banned or something?

[ddoubleez]

I don't hate women. I love them. Do you hate women, ddoubleez? I hope not. Women give birth to the human race. Women are beautiful. Women are intelligent.

Statistically, over half the women polled have fought off rape... Over one third have been raped.... More than half report psychological attacks...

For most of this countries history women could not vote, and almost as much time slaves were given a greater consideration than women....

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration....

We do not have to mention that women typically get paid 60% of what a man gets for the same role and performance.... It should also be noted that women are enslaved at a higher rate then men....

[fmb]

Points taken, deez. My question for those women suffering what you've listed would be: why did you put up with that shit? The bastard had to sleep at some point. Where was your shovel? A heavy rock?

[Krasch]

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration...

If you mean by this that they have to stay on the corporate ladder to get ahead, then it's perfectly correct.

Why should someone who takes time away from their career to have kids and raise a family be given equal standing next to someone else, male or female, who has not? They haven't put in the same amount of time, so they shouldn't be given a free pass just because they have kids.

Fact is, mostly it's women who choose to get off that ladder so naturally they'll be at a disadvantage versus those people who don't. And even then we bend over backward to accommodate them as much possible, when any male who chose the same route to raise his kids at home would not get a fraction of the same consideration.

We don't hate women, quite the opposite. We cut them more slack than any man would ever get.

[Juan.Camaney]

Statistically, over half the women polled have fought off rape... Over one third have been raped.... More than half report psychological attacks...

For most of this countries history women could not vote, and almost as much time slaves were given a greater consideration than women....

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration....

We do not have to mention that women typically get paid 60% of what a man gets for the same role and performance.... It should also be noted that women are enslaved at a higher rate then men....
First, fuck statistics. They can be fucked with to prove whatever anyone wants to prove.

Women get raped because men are less desirable to be raped. Who wants to rape a dude unless you are in prison? Men get psychologically attacked all the time, we just don't report it because we just take it.

Men could not vote in the past because they did not make money. Simple. Did men want women who were not even a representable number in the work force voting along side of them? No. It should be like that (no income no vote) now too, but whatever...

There are plenty of women in power if you are willing to look. Don't feed us this 70's tripe, guy. Women can run for office and have for a very long time. They vote, they lead, they're equal. They adopt the roles they need to in order to surive as such. What exactly are the roles men would adopt if all women were in charge? Knitting? Give me a break here, we broke gender roles a long time ago.

That women get paid 60% line is bullshit too. Women take more sick time. Women take maternity leave. Women have "women problems" that employers can't even question. They can't do physical labor like men can (explain differnt sized sports equipment to me if you are going to start debating this or why we have two winners at the marathons for women and men...they just aint equal). People get paid what they deserve and if women aren't willing to pull as much weight then they shouldn't be paid as much. FYI, my gf makes more money than I am and is 5 years younger. It does not bother me nor her. I don't take it as an attack on my ego and she doesn't throw it in my face. While I work 40 hour weeks, she puts in ~50-60. Also not my fault, I work public and cannot put in over time right now.

There are reasons for everything...statistics be damned.

[Krasch]

That women get paid 60% line is bullshit too. Women take more sick time. Women take maternity leave. Women have "women problems" that employers can't even question. They can't do physical labor like men can (explain differnt sized sports equipment to me if you are going to start debating this or why we have two winners at the marathons for women and men...they just aint equal). People get paid what they deserve and if women aren't willing to pull as much weight then they shouldn't be paid as much. FYI, my gf makes more money than I am and is 5 years younger. It does not bother me nor her. I don't take it as an attack on my ego and she doesn't throw it in my face. While I work 40 hour weeks, she puts in ~50-60. Also not my fault, I work public and cannot put in over time right now.

There are reasons for everything...statistics be damned.

Exactly right. Why are there differing standards for acceptable performance in firefighting, the military, etc.

It's because if women in those fields were judged truly gender-neutral, to the same standard as men, they'd by and large fall flat on their face.

Women aren't hated, they're pandered to.

[Juan.Camaney]

:werd: and its not because we hate them, its because in a life threatening situation, if I had a choice between a 6'5" 250 lbs muscley man carrying my unconsious ass out of a fiery building or a 5'8" 145 lb woman who got the job because of quotas....yeah no, the dude.

Take those same people and put them into an office environment where all they use is their brain, then base it on performance and qualifications. Problem is, there are not enough women applying for jobs like this to be able to show real statistics that are indicative of what happens.

[Krasch]

:werd: and its not because we hate them, its because in a life threatening situation, if I had a choice between a 6'5" 250 lbs muscley man carrying my unconsious ass out of a fiery building or a 5'8" 145 lb woman who got the job because of quotas....yeah no, the dude.

Take those same people and put them into an office environment where all they use is their brain, then base it on performance and qualifications. Problem is, there are not enough women applying for jobs like this to be able to show real statistics that are indicative of what happens.

Forget just carrying your unconscious ass there Juan, then there's the lengths of fire hose, ladders, oxygen tanks, other equipment etc.

Most women just can't compete on the same level in jobs like that. Sure there are exceptions like a Chyna or Beth Phoenix, but those are few and far between.

[Anibal]

Statistically, over half the women polled have fought off rape... Over one third have been raped.... More than half report psychological attacks...

For most of this countries history women could not vote, and almost as much time slaves were given a greater consideration than women....

We have almost no examples of women as leaders, and the few that are completely adopt the roles that the male dominated societies give them... It is only then that they are given consideration....

We do not have to mention that women typically get paid 60% of what a man gets for the same role and performance.... It should also be noted that women are enslaved at a higher rate then men....

I think you are at least 20 years to late at least to be complaining about how hard it is for women.

Yes women couldnt vote, i cant imagine how hard life is when you cant vote...

Women as leaders hmmm the president of Chile is a woman, times are changing and women are not only having more chances but they are using them a lot better. I live in a "third world country" and last year the runner up on the nation elections was woman. I go to law school and more than 1/2 of allmost every class are women.

Statistics can say many things but in reality, on todays world a woman can get as much as she wants if she sets her mind straight and works hard for it. On the last 6 months at the firm where i do my internship they have hired 2 men and 4 women, simply because they did better in the interview.

Its common sense to hire the most qualified person for a job.

[ddoubleez]

Points taken, deez. My question for those women suffering what you've listed would be: why did you put up with that shit? The bastard had to sleep at some point. Where was your shovel? A heavy rock?

Women go to prison for fighting back... It is estimated that 1/3 of women that are in prison for a violent crime, resisted someone that lives at the same address that they did..

There are a number of states that a woman can not even file charges against a spouse that rapes her. 40 years ago, no state would listen to woman that was raped by a spouse, it was considered a right of the husband.

[ddoubleez]

I think you are at least 20 years to late at least to be complaining about how hard it is for women.

Yes women couldnt vote, i cant imagine how hard life is when you cant vote...

Women as leaders hmmm the president of Chile is a woman, times are changing and women are not only having more chances but they are using them a lot better. I live in a "third world country" and last year the runner up on the nation elections was woman. I go to law school and more than 1/2 of allmost every class are women.

Statistics can say many things but in reality, on todays world a woman can get as much as she wants if she sets her mind straight and works hard for it. On the last 6 months at the firm where i do my internship they have hired 2 men and 4 women, simply because they did better in the interview.

Its common sense to hire the most qualified person for a job.

I would argue that women the only women being given oppertunity are giving men 'their due'. A woman does not make a position of importance unless she plays by a man's rules.

I would also argue that a woman can work as hard as she can, but only gets what men allow. As far as more women getting hired at your firm, did they do better in their interview, because they showed cleavage, or agree to a lower wage. And again, a man probably made the decision, so it probably was not for her skills.

[ddoubleez]

:werd: and its not because we hate them, its because in a life threatening situation, if I had a choice between a 6'5" 250 lbs muscley man carrying my unconsious ass out of a fiery building or a 5'8" 145 lb woman who got the job because of quotas....yeah no, the dude.

Take those same people and put them into an office environment where all they use is their brain, then base it on performance and qualifications. Problem is, there are not enough women applying for jobs like this to be able to show real statistics that are indicative of what happens.


It is quite likely that women are convinced that they can not.

Men were convinced for over a decade that it was impossible to run a mile under 5 minutes. When someone finally overcame the perception, the record was broken numerous times very quickly...

Women maybe experincing simular pshyological opperssion.

[ddoubleez]

If you mean by this that they have to stay on the corporate ladder to get ahead, then it's perfectly correct.

Why should someone who takes time away from their career to have kids and raise a family be given equal standing next to someone else, male or female, who has not? They haven't put in the same amount of time, so they shouldn't be given a free pass just because they have kids.

Fact is, mostly it's women who choose to get off that ladder so naturally they'll be at a disadvantage versus those people who don't. And even then we bend over backward to accommodate them as much possible, when any male who chose the same route to raise his kids at home would not get a fraction of the same consideration.

We don't hate women, quite the opposite. We cut them more slack than any man would ever get.

No, that is not what I meant when said that, but thank for pointing out the need to clarify...

One easy example is, if a women is an in a position of power, she would have to sacrifice dignity. Give in to demeaning jokes or entertain senerios that demean of use others of her gender or even herself, or at the least tolerate them. She would have to watch other individuals of her gender be used to promote a product or idea.

Our society horribly objectifies women to make men money, any woman that tries to fight this paradigm will not succeed.

[ddoubleez]

1)Women get raped because men are less desirable to be raped. Who wants to rape a dude unless you are in prison? Men get psychologically attacked all the time, we just don't report it because we just take it.

2)Men could not vote in the past because they did not make money. Simple. 2.1)Did men want women who were not even a representable number in the work force voting along side of them? No. It should be like that (no income no vote) now too, but whatever...

3)There are plenty of women in power if you are willing to look. Don't feed us this 70's tripe, guy. Women can run for office and have for a very long time. They vote, they lead, they're equal. They adopt the roles they need to in order to surive as such. What exactly are the roles men would adopt if all women were in charge? Knitting? Give me a break here, we broke gender roles a long time ago.

4)That women get paid 60% line is bullshit too. Women take more sick time. Women take maternity leave. Women have "women problems" that employers can't even question. They can't do physical labor like men can (explain different sized sports equipment to me if you are going to start debating this or why we have two winners at the marathons for women and men...they just ain't equal). People get paid what they deserve and if women aren't willing to pull as much weight then they shouldn't be paid as much. FYI, my gf makes more money than I am and is 5 years younger. It does not bother me nor her. I don't take it as an attack on my ego and she doesn't throw it in my face. While I work 40 hour weeks, she puts in ~50-60. Also not my fault, I work public and cannot put in over time right now.

5)There are reasons for everything...statistics be damned.

1) First, rape is not an exercise in pleasure in the sense you are thinking of, it is a demonstration of power. It is a primitive way to dominate. If rape was done for pleasure, I would assume that rapists could describe who they raped the next day, but they can not most of the time. That is why men are raped in prison, inmates are dominating another to establish class and power, not because they like slapping their testicles against another sack. Women do not get raped because men are not desirable to rape, women get raped because they are lower on a social hierarchy, and they are lower on the hierarchy because we hate them or at least think less of them, just as a white person hates a black person, they are lower on a social hierarchy.

2) What you meant to say is that SOME men lower on the social totem pole could not vote, because rich land owners demeaned them in their mind to make them feel more comfortable about living at the expense of poorer classes. They also had to protect this arrangement by oppressing any opportunity to change this.
2.1) Take a history lesson, women working at the explosion of the industrial revolution were working as many hours and just as hard as men. We needed all the workers we could to grow the economy, and it was not until after the two world wars that women dropped out of the workforce, largely due to the loss of jobs.... What were men going to stay at home, no they are below us.

3) No their are not plenty of women in roles of power and I covered this in an above post if you plan on continuing to argue this.

4)First, I will point out that one post you said men and women are equal now you are saying they are not.. And I agree that if people are not willing to pull as much weight they should not get paid as much... Are you telling me that the woman you spend your time with when you are tired of porn is not willing to pull as much weight as you, after all you did just finish telling me she is working 25 to 50 more time as you..?

5) Yes, Juan, there is a reason for everything, and statics, though they are not perfect, help us understand this.....

[Juan.Camaney]

Women go to prison for fighting back... It is estimated that 1/3 of women that are in prison for a violent crime, resisted someone that lives at the same address that they did..



I don't know where you live or what laws are there, but here in California, as soon as there is a domestic abuse call, the cops assume it is the man. They usually go to your house, hand cuff the guy and put him in the back of the b&w and then ask questions. Your statistic could be flawed too. How many of those women resisted with a butcher knife because their husband was verbally abusive? Self defense? Hardly. If I called the gf a cunt and she slapped me a few times, she is the one breaking the law.



There are a number of states that a woman can not even file charges against a spouse that rapes her. 40 years ago, no state would listen to woman that was raped by a spouse, it was considered a right of the husband.

Yes, there are still stupid laws in the book. Here in LA I can herd sheep down town between the hours of sunset and sundown. 40 years ago is a long as time, brother.



I would argue that women the only women being given oppertunity are giving men 'their due'. A woman does not make a position of importance unless she plays by a man's rules.

All your opinion, but not fact. You can't be inside every employers head and know that is their MO. Women have been my equal since I can remember. The girls in class all were taught the same thing. We were taught that we are all equal and that gender roles are all BS. Even in mexico, bro, all of my cousins that choose to go to school do so. A lot of them are lawyers too, like Anibal has said.



I would also argue that a woman can work as hard as she can, but only gets what men allow. As far as more women getting hired at your firm, did they do better in their interview, because they showed cleavage, or agree to a lower wage. And again, a man probably made the decision, so it probably was not for her skills.

Sounds to me like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. All heresay. Cleavage? You think those women got hired because of cleavage? Taht's a slap to the face of every woman who has every tried to do anything for herself. You are being sexist and mysoginistic.



It is quite likely that women are convinced that they can not.



Men were convinced for over a decade that it was impossible to run a mile under 5 minutes. When someone finally overcame the perception, the record was broken numerous times very quickly...



Women maybe experincing simular pshyological opperssion.

(insert bunny pancake picture here)





One easy example is, if a women is an in a position of power, she would have to sacrifice dignity. Give in to demeaning jokes or entertain senerios that demean of use others of her gender or even herself, or at the least tolerate them. She would have to watch other individuals of her gender be used to promote a product or idea.



Our society horribly objectifies women to make men money, any woman that tries to fight this paradigm will not succeed.

Utter bullshit. Sacrifice dignity? I don't know if you have ever sat around a group of women sharing a few glasses of wine but they are pretty perverted too and share a lot dirtier jokes than we men do. Are you living in the amish country? If so is your computer powered by a potato(e)??? You know what field I'm in. We have never in the history of my carreer have advertised any of our projects or ideas objectifying women. How would you even do that for a fire station, bro?

[Juan.Camaney]

1) First, rape is not an exercise in pleasure in the sense you are thinking of, it is a demonstration of power. It is a primitive way to dominate. If rape was done for pleasure, I would assume that rapists could describe who they raped the next day, but they can not most of the time. That is why men are raped in prison, inmates are dominating another to establish class and power, not because they like slapping their testicles against another sack. Women do not get raped because men are not desirable to rape, women get raped because they are lower on a social hierarchy, and they are lower on the hierarchy because we hate them or at least think less of them, just as a white person hates a black person, they are lower on a social hierarchy.
Yeah Psych 101 teaches us that rape is a power thing. But how does this come to play in the most commonest of rapes? Date rape. Even staturoty rape? Your psych is flawed guy. You are trying to blame men for women getting raped? Geeze...can you get any more cliche? You are even playing the race card...wow.


2) What you meant to say is that SOME men lower on the social totem pole could not vote, because rich land owners demeaned them in their mind to make them feel more comfortable about living at the expense of poorer classes. They also had to protect this arrangement by oppressing any opportunity to change this.
No. I said what I meant. Read a book. Not just a US history book either. Plenty of matriarchal societies everywhere....hence queens.

2.1) Take a history lesson, women working at the explosion of the industrial revolution were working as many hours and just as hard as men. We needed all the workers we could to grow the economy, and it was not until after the two world wars that women dropped out of the workforce, largely due to the loss of jobs.... What were men going to stay at home, no they are below us.
Yeah I'm familiar with this. Its the era where the "yes we can" poster evolved. The women stepped it up to take over where men couldn't. That's called THE PAST. Its just not applicable any more.


3) No their are not plenty of women in roles of power and I covered this in an above post if you plan on continuing to argue this.
Their is not the same as there. And yes there are plenty of women in power if you are willing to look. The fact that you are trying to prove a very tired and void point is why you arent willing to look. Women are in charge and they have been for a while. Look at how many songs are written praising women, their beauty, the fact that they procreate, their intelligence, etc. If all you listen to is gangsta rap, sorry nigga, but they are going to keep objectifying women who allow themselves. Real women, the kind I like around my life, with opinions, ideas, ambition, those are the ones I'm talking about. Its not like men havent been objectifying themselves for women since the dawm of time. Women seek the best possible mate to have the best possible offspring. Men are pieces of meat too.

4)First, I will point out that one post you said men and women are equal now you are saying they are not.. And I agree that if people are not willing to pull as much weight they should not get paid as much... Are you telling me that the woman you spend your time with when you are tired of porn is not willing to pull as much weight as you, after all you did just finish telling me she is working 25 to 50 more time as you..?
They are equals in our day to day lives but there are certain tasks that are better achievable by men. That doesn't make men more or better than women, they are still equal in value, just not equal in potential. Don't get it twisted just to prove another tired point...

and FYI, you are on the verge of getting a ban if you are going to be dropping those stupid comments about porn and my gf. I didn't bring your gay lovers into this, did I?

Just to answer your stupid ass question, read the part where I said I couldnt work over time right now. She is salary and I am hourly since I am a public servant. I need to get my overtime approved and since we are in economic life support, all over time is not allowed. I got no problem working the hours she does. I'm willing, just not allowed.

5) Yes, Juan, there is a reason for everything, and statics, though they are not perfect, help us understand this.....
No they don't. They help you try to prove bullshit. Why don't you go and read this:
The 100 Most Powerful Women - Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/2005/07/27/powerful-women-world-cz_05powom_land.html)

Then tell me women are still opressed and helpless.

[Anibal]

I would argue that women the only women being given oppertunity are giving men 'their due'. A woman does not make a position of importance unless she plays by a man's rules.

I would also argue that a woman can work as hard as she can, but only gets what men allow. As far as more women getting hired at your firm, did they do better in their interview, because they showed cleavage, or agree to a lower wage. And again, a man probably made the decision, so it probably was not for her skills.

I think you are waaaay off on this one. The process followed to hire people is a series of interviews. Done by both men and women who work at the area that the person has applied to get in to.

I think you are an angry not so attractive woman, im sorry but i do.

Out of the 4 women who where hired 1 is very pretty the other 3 are nothing special. The pretty one is actually the smartest one. I dont understand why you say that a women can get only what men allow, do you seriously think all positions of power are occupied by men ?

Seriously, have a little more confidence on your self, get out there and see for yourself that chances are there for the taking. If you have had bad luck just keep trying. Its not like every single men that has gone to college and has done things the right way is succesfull you know ?

And to end this. About the cleavage thing, look when a women interviews me i smile more, laugh a little more and make a lot more eye contact just because i know that she will like me better for doing it. I dont feel downgraded or anything because of that, and i have a little secret for your, women dont either. Many friends of mine actually prefer to be interviewed by men just because they know that their looks and attitude can help make for a better first impression. Same with men who are interviewed by women. Nothing to be ashamed of there, showing cleavage is a very different thing.

Its not tougher for woman, it was, its not anymore.

[Juan.Camaney]

dude, deez is a dude.

[Anibal]

dude, deez is a dude.

If thats true, it wouldnt be the first time i make that mistake.

[Johnny Honey]

I have women when they are driving. It is absolutelly horrible!

[Graffin]

I have women when they are driving. It is absolutelly horrible!

This leaves me wondering if you read the rest of the thread...

[ddoubleez]

When Getting Beaten By Your Husband Is A Pre-Existing Condition

When Getting Beaten By Your Husband Is A Pre-Existing Condition (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/when-getting-beaten-by-yo_n_286029.html)

Ties into both this thread and the healthcare thread...

[ddoubleez]

I think you are waaaay off on this one. The process followed to hire people is a series of interviews. Done by both men and women who work at the area that the person has applied to get in to.

1) I think you are an angry not so attractive woman, im sorry but i do.

2) Out of the 4 women who where hired 1 is very pretty the other 3 are nothing special. The pretty one is actually the smartest one. 3) I dont understand why you say that a women can get only what men allow, do you seriously think all positions of power are occupied by men ?

Seriously, have a little more confidence on your self, get out there and see for yourself that chances are there for the taking. If you have had bad luck just keep trying. 4) Its not like every single men that has gone to college and has done things the right way is succesfull you know ?

5) And to end this. About the cleavage thing, look when a women interviews me i smile more, laugh a little more and make a lot more eye contact just because i know that she will like me better for doing it. I dont feel downgraded or anything because of that, and i have a little secret for your, women dont either. 6) Many friends of mine actually prefer to be interviewed by men just because they know that their looks and attitude can help make for a better first impression. Same with men who are interviewed by women. Nothing to be ashamed of there, showing cleavage is a very different thing.

Its not tougher for woman, it was, its not anymore.

1) Yes, I am a VERY UNATRACTIVE WOMAN, Juan is right too..

2) I could assume that the women are hiring the other women to get acceptance from the men.

3) You just have not thought about it long enough... We live in a mans world, with mens rules, in clothes designed by men, in building designed and built by men, for men, promoted by men... Men make all the rules, even if a woman was given a chance, it would be a bone thrown by a man... Oh, and I do not have to tell you who the majority of investors are do I?

4) You are right, most men that do the right thing are not successful... LOL, this backs up my point.

5) If as man flirts, it is to get a head, if a woman does it, it is to get closer to even odds.

6) You understand that is playing by a mans rule....

[Johnny Honey]

This leaves me wondering if you read the rest of the thread...

Never mind, only tried to joke a bit :tongue: