What's The Virginity Line?

[koЯnut]

Okay...the anal thread just got me thinking. What is exactaly the line where virginity is crossed.
If a girl does anal but not vag penetration is she still a virgin? What about oral sex?
Let me know what you think. I'll post my opinion later.

[Realtalguy]

I think it is only defined as coitus... or vaginal penis insertion...

[throatyogurt]

I personally think that each version of sex should have it's own virginity. Done anal, but no vaginal; then a vaginal virgin. But, in the big picture, when you cross into penetration (not counting oral - Bill Clinton is right on this one!!!!!!!!) I would consider your virginity to be lost. Anything I haven't done I would consider myself to be a virgin in. I am a skydiving version, for example. That is my take on it.

[michaeljohn]

this was brought up before this forum and the answer is very simple. a virgin is defined by whether or not she has had penetration of her vagina by a penis. any other sexual contact does not constitute loss of virginity. otherwise, the word has been redefined. ass, mouth, hands, feet, breasts, legs, arms, etc. a girl can handle a penis in all those ways. if she does so with any part other than her vagina she is still a virgin. she may be a slut, kinky, or a tease, but unless she has taken it in her cootch, she is a virgin. also, if anything other than a penis invades her vagina, she is still a virgin.

[koЯnut]

this was brought up before this forum and the answer is very simple. a virgin is defined by whether or not she has had penetration of her vagina by a penis. any other sexual contact does not constitute loss of virginity. otherwise, the word has been redefined. ass, mouth, hands, feet, breasts, legs, arms, etc. a girl can handle a penis in all those ways. if she does so with any part other than her vagina she is still a virgin. she may be a slut, kinky, or a tease, but unless she has taken it in her cootch, she is a virgin.
I did do a search for this topic and didn't find anything.

Okay...so what If a guy is a virgin but he does anal on a girl(and cums). Is he considered a virgin?

[michaeljohn]

I did do a search for this topic and didn't find anything.

Okay...so what If a guy is a virgin but he does anal on a girl(and cums). Is he considered a virgin?
same thing, if he doesn't enter the cootch with his penis, he is a virgin.

[druelt]

I agree here also...virginity is with a penis and vagina only, imo.

[Chameleon Grrl]

I can't help but mention that so far this thread is exteremly heterosexist. By these defintions, gay men and lesbians who have never experimented with straight sex are still all virgins. Is this really what you guys believe or did you just not think it through completely?

[koЯnut]

I can't help but mention that so far this thread is exteremly heterosexist. By these defintions, gay men and lesbians who have never experimented with straight sex are still all virgins. Is this really what you guys believe or did you just not think it through completely?

Finally!! I was waiting for more arguement. This is a very, very good point C.G. I don't agree with all the above statements. To me sexual penetration is grounds for not being a virgin.

Virgin:

Main Entry: 1vir·gin
Pronunciation: 'v&r-j&n
Function: noun
: a person who has not had sexual intercourse


Apparently anal isn't intercourse to your guy's standard.

[michaeljohn]

I can't help but mention that so far this thread is exteremly heterosexist. By these defintions, gay men and lesbians who have never experimented with straight sex are still all virgins. Is this really what you guys believe or did you just not think it through completely?
Yes, by definition they are virgins. Heterosexual virgins. They are in their own class as homosexuals. They are sexually experienced, but virgins to real intercourse. Anything else redefines the word virgin.

[koЯnut]

I'm sorry mfinley, I just don't see the logic here. Intercourse is intercourse. How is it different if you cum in an ass or a vag?? The act of sexual intercouse can't be limited to just penis/vagina penetration.

[michaeljohn]

I'm sorry mfinley, I just don't see the logic here. Intercourse is intercourse. How is it different if you cum in an ass or a vag?? The act of sexual intercouse can't be limited to just penis/vagina penetration.
The logic is simple. You are confusing the word virgin with the term sexual experience. I don't understand why
people wish to redefine the word virgin!

[koЯnut]

The logic is simple. You are confusing the word virgin with the term sexual experience. I don't understand why
people wish to redefine the word virgin!

Do you consider anal intercourse?? If so the argument is over. The definition says it right there!!

: a person who has not had sexual intercourse

[michaeljohn]

Do you consider anal intercourse?? If so the argument is over. The definition says it right there!!

: a person who has not had sexual intercourse
Uhhh, no it isn't over. Two guys ramming each other don't have a vagina. Again, you are trying to redefine virgin.

Sexual intercourse can come in all types of styles, with all types of equipment and body parts. But virgin means
coitus with a penis and vagina. A girl who climaxes while riding a horse or riding a bike does not lose her virginity.

A boy who sticks his pecker in a tube doesn't either.

But both this boy and girl have experienced sexual stimulation, and experience.

Key word, is virgin. Everything else not involving a penis and a vagina together is something else.

[koЯnut]

I guess its just how you look at the definition of the word "virgin". I've looked at about ten different site's definition's and they all said the same thing. "a person who has not had sexual intercourse" Anal intercourse is intercourse however you look at it.

[michaeljohn]

I guess its just how you look at the definition of the word "virgin". I've looked at about ten different site's definition's and they all said the same thing. "a person who has not had sexual intercourse" Anal intercourse is intercourse however you look at it.
As I said in my first post, people are trying to redefine the word virgin. Your thread title asks what is the virginity line.

A virgin has throughout history required coitus to end it. Coitus with a penis and a vagina, together.

Your interpretation of the definition sexual intercourse makes sense, but whoever wrote it assumed hetero sex.

[koЯnut]

You have all valid points mifinley. But times change and with that sometimes definitions have to also change. Obviously the definition of the word virgin was created with only male/female intercourse in mind. But thats not reality anymore.

[michaeljohn]

You have all valid points mifinley. But times change and with that sometimes definitions have to also change. Obviously the definition of the word virgin was created with only male/female intercourse in mind. But thats not reality anymore.
Well, this definition can stay put. There are thousands of ways one can achieve sexual pleasure/pain.
If you change the definition of virgin to include all of the above as grounds to lose it, how do you classify the
person who has never engaged in heterosexual coitus? You have taken virgin away from the virgins!

[koЯnut]

how do you classify the
person who has never engaged in heterosexual coitus?

I guess the same way you classified homosexuals in this post:

Yes, by definition they are virgins. Heterosexual virgins. They are in their own class as homosexuals.

So now a days there are two types of virgins. Hetero and Homo.

[michaeljohn]

I guess the same way you classified homosexuals in this post:



So now a days there are two types of virgins. Hetero and Homo.
There can be no such thing as a homo virgin, again, hetero coitus is required to lose virginity.

However, if male were to say his ass or mouth was or was not virgin, we would know what he implied.

Seems like last time this topic ran people kept trying to redefine the word virgin. Don't know why you keep trying.

[koЯnut]

I really don't know how I'm trying to redifine the word here. I've put the definition of the word up multiple times proving my point.
"a person who has not had sexual intercourse".
Anal intercourse is sexual intercourse.

[michaeljohn]

I really don't know how I'm trying to redifine the word here. I've put the definition of the word up multiple times proving my point.
"a person who has not had sexual intercourse".
Anal intercourse is sexual intercourse.
Yes, and I reponded to this, whoever wrote that definition assumed hetero intercourse. Sexual intercourse can come from a penis, a dildo, a baseball bat, a foot, a tounge, a drumstick, you name it. But coitus is penis and vagina.

Ok, what about the male virgin who will become gay, but hasn't done anything sexual yet? So, he gets his ass rammed. His classification could now be considered gay. And let's add the girl virgin who will become lesbian but hasn't yet. Then she straps it on with another dyke. She is now a lesbian. Now, these two virgins, the gay male and the lesbian hook up for sex. He is now no longer a virgin, or gay. He is bisexual. She is no longer a lesbian, she is bisexual. And neither one is a virgin, they lost their virginity together.

Look at the terms:

Virgin: Never had hetero coitus
Gay: homosexual intercourse
Lesbian: Female sex
Bisexual: engages in sex with same and opposite sex.
Sexual intercourse: infinite definitions

Virgin is another word with its own special meaning, and that has been explained.

[koЯnut]

Put up one link that says the definition of virgin is "never had hetero coitus".
I just can't find one.

Like I said before Fin. I understand your points and there valid:). But thats not looking at it in today's way of life. Things change. Sex is a whole different act today. With change comes change in they way things are viewed.

[Jimi]

A woman is no longer a virgin when she's had any kind of sexual encounter with someone else. That's that! :tongue:

[michaeljohn]

Put up one link that says the definition of virgin is "never had hetero coitus".
I just can't find one.

Like I said before Fin. I understand your points and there valid:). But thats not looking at it in today's way of life. Things change. Sex is a whole different act today. With change comes change in they way things are viewed.
I am not going to look for a definition, most everyone here knows hetero coitus is what is required to lose virginity.

Now as for saying things change, homosexuality has been around since ancient times. so has straight sex, or we wouldn't be here. Times haven't changed and neither need the definitions. I doubt they ever will.

Virgin has and always will mean hetero coitus. I am now stuck repeating points you are ignoring. If you say someone loses their virginity from anal sex, or whatever other method, what on earth do you call the people who have never had hetero coitus? You took their word away from them; VIRGIN.

[Jimi]

Any time a woman has any kind of sexual intercourse, be it oral, finger, anal, anything, she has lost her virginity. Just because she may or may not still have her hymen, doesn't mean that she is a virgin.

[koЯnut]

Times have changed as far as sexuality is looked apon more open mindedly. Where as a long time ago it was shunned. With that, definitions have to change.
You still haven't supported your definition of the word virgin. I have.

[Chameleon Grrl]

Ok, what about the male virgin who will become gay, but hasn't done anything sexual yet? So, he gets his ass rammed. His classification could now be considered gay.
Sexual orientation has nothing to do with sexual experience.

[Jimi]

I've read the bible quite a few times, and not once have I ever seen it mention the exact meaning of virgin as being only hetero coitus.

[koЯnut]

I am tired of this thread, and have made my points. I am done arguing and I close with this:

Edit mfinley: I deleted my post with this quote and this goes to, it was my post he is quoting.

No No No!!! God would absolutley NOT say she was a virgin.

[Chameleon Grrl]

And the idea that "virgin" is referring only to hetero sex is YOUR issue, not the word's.

[Jimi]

No, sex isn't only hetero, but neither is it always bisexual.

[Chameleon Grrl]

I command mfinley to go watch both Chasing Amy and Dogma. now shoo!

[Jimi]

Ahh, I suppose Kevin Smith has all the answers!

[Chameleon Grrl]

He's got a couple anyway :eek3d:

[Jimi]

I don't know, I think if one's going to use the Bible as a source, they should read it. Fuck the Kevin Smith movies. :tongue:

[michaeljohn]

I command mfinley to go watch both Chasing Amy and Dogma. now shoo!
I am a supermoderator and have to monitor the forums. I will stay to make sure everyone stays in line. :wiggle:

[koЯnut]

Homosexuality is now more openly viewed as a norm more than ever. So how can't we include that in our interpritation of sex?
The act of intercourse analy, or vaginally is intercourse. The exasct definition of the word "virgin" is "someone who hasn't had sexual intercourse". I just don't see how this can be debated anymore.

[Jimi]

Supermod me, I'll keep watch! :rofl:

If a gay man has anal sex with another gay man, is he still a virgin, since he wasn't penile/vaginal intercourse?

[Chameleon Grrl]

I don't know, I think if one's going to use the Bible as a source, they should read it. Fuck the Kevin Smith movies. :tongue:
Great let's read it! Show me where Jesus said "virgin refers only to heterosexual vaginal intercourse"

[Jimi]

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but you're stating the exact point that I was making.

[Car Enthusiast]

okay how do you want to look at it, as a definition or as a moral thing

as kornut said, "a person who has not had sexual intercourse", is the definition of virgin in that way you are thinking that butt sechs is sexual intercourse, but it is not, sexual intercourse is intercourse with the sexual organs period, finley is right on this one, just because todays views are more "open" doesn't mean it changes the definition of a word, too many people want definitions to be changed for their own benefit/agendas

now you can look at it as a moral issue, when someone says, i have had it in the mouth, ear, butt, and i would say no you aren't a virgin, cause to me virginity is a moral issue different in each person, people who say i am a technical virgin are just trying to tell themselves they are not sluts, to me sexual relations is more of an important issue than technically being a virgin because of the mindset you have

and kornut their have been periods that probably if not rival todays homosexuality era in being accepted kinda come close

cliff notes" technically virgin is between a man and woman penis and vagina

morally to me, sexual relations constitute denial of virginity status

[Car Enthusiast]

I command mfinley to go watch both Chasing Amy and Dogma. now shoo!

your opinions are now nullified due to the fact that you use hollywood movies as basis for an arguement, now i command you to go watch a movie that supports my side of the arguement as if that will somehow make you understand my point and agree with me :weak:

[koЯnut]

as kornut said, "a person who has not had sexual intercourse", is the definition of virgin in that way you are thinking that butt sechs is sexual intercourse, but it is not, sexual intercourse is intercourse with the sexual organs period,

So youre saying that technically gay men don't have "sex"?

Definitions have to change with time. The definition of the Earth changed when Columbus proved the earth was round. I know that this is far from the topic, but you get the idea.

[michaeljohn]

So youre saying that technically gay men don't have "sex"?

Definitions have to change with time. The definition of the Earth changed when Columbus proved the earth was round. I know that this is far from the topic, but you get the idea.
I said I was done here, but you are avoiding something. If you change the definition of virgin to include all acts of sexual nature (you have to add them all or none) then what do you call a person who has never had sex in the traditional way I have outlined so many times here. Sorry, this definition will never change. End of story.

[CD]

I love ya mfinley... but I have to say you are wrong in this arguement. I understand what the original meaning of virgin is (your arguement), but I feel as though the definition has changed over the years.

here is what the dictionary says the meaning of bad is:
# Not achieving an adequate standard; poor: a bad concert.
# Evil; sinful.
# Vulgar or obscene: bad language.
# Informal. Disobedient or naughty: bad children.
... etc...

And yet in the 90's, bad meant something was cool. Today it is used in a good sense and bad sense... the only way to distinguish is to listen for the context it is used in. The bill of rights was created to give everyone the right to vote... except for black males, black females, and white women. So basically everyone meant only one racial/sexual combination. And over the years the definition has changed to include blacks, women, hispanics, etc...

With that being said I don't feel as though you can hang on to "your" definition of virgin anymore.[/my $0.02]

[Car Enthusiast]

right technically they don't, but for me that won't fly if someone says they are a virgin, i don't go by the technical definition of things, i am not saying i agree with the definition, but that is the definition, we can't just change things cause society becomes more open with something, i didn't say that homo's don't have sex or what not, just that the DEFINITION of a virgin is some one who hasn't had SEXUAL intercourse

i didn't know the earth was ever defined as to what shape it is, i know what you are trying to say (still disagree with it) but that point doesn't illustrate it very well

[koЯnut]

then what do you call a person who has never had sex in the traditional way

A Virgin....I don't get what you're saying.

Why can't the word be universal to all types of people(gay or straight)?

[michaeljohn]

CD, I am surprised. what you say is true about your word, but has nothing to do with the word virgin. It was way off topic. So your post lacked any muscle.

There are people who believe in remaining virgins until marriage, they abstain from sex before and live a life with one partner. If a girl of this type got drunk one night and did a little heavy petting or what not, but did not engage in coitus, she is a virgin. If you married this girl, you would be the first to penetrate her right? Now, if you could ask her one question, and she would answer truthfully, and it was had she ever had hetero coitus before and she said no, you would have the knowledge she was a virgin. Would your opinion of her being a virgin change if she told you years later she blew the high school class president at the prom? Of course not, you were still the first to score the cookie!

It seems like you folks just like to argue. You can't change this definition. But if you use the word as I said to say your ass or your mouth is virgin, it is understood.

[koЯnut]

Mfinley....you're definiition of the word Virgin has no backing. Like I said before, post a link that has that definition.
I know you probably won't, but I wish you would. It would let me see your side a little clearer.

[michaeljohn]

Mfinley....you're definiition of the word Virgin has no backing. Like I said before, post a link that has that definition.
I know you probably won't, but I wish you would. It would let me see your side a little clearer.
no need to post a definition. you guys are not getting the point.

Example, I worked with a high school girl a few years back. She had blown half the guys in the school but had not given up her pussy. She was saving that. Someday, maybe by now, someone got in her hole first. that is the goal, right? to get in the hole. Someone who has been ass rammed, titty fucked, pussy licked, and a million other things but has not yielded her cooter to a dick can be called every trashy name in the book, but she is a virgin.

Key Words: first dick in the pussy

[BackdoorJesus]

Mfinley....you're definiition of the word Virgin has no backing. Like I said before, post a link that has that definition.
I know you probably won't, but I wish you would. It would let me see your side a little clearer.

You gave him the definition - as someone who has not had sexual intercourse. I would venture that this definition further infers that sexual intercourse is sex with the sexual organs ie, penis/vagina. You apparently would like sexual intercourse to be redefined as any kind of sexual contact, and it isn't.

Anus, mouth, digital - all these sexual acts have their own specific descriptive terminology, and that terminology is NOT "sexual intercourse".

YOUR definition of "virgin" is someone who has had ANY kind of sexual contact, yet you yourself stated the definition of a virgin as someone who has had sexual intercourse - and I think the point mfinley, and CarEnthusiast, and myself are trying to get thru to you is that sexual contact is different than sexual intercourse.

[koЯnut]

ok....two different opinions.
As you say I don't see your point, you don't see mine.

Anal IS sexual intercourse. Period.
I've shown the definition of the word Virgin and it proves my point.

[Car Enthusiast]

okay i just looked it up

virgin:
1.an unmarried woman devoted to areligion
2a:and absolutely chaste young woman
2b:and unmarried girl or woman
3.virgin mary
4.a person who has not had sexual intercourse
5.a female animal that has never copulated

sexual intercourse:
1.heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis

[koЯnut]

YOUR definition of "virgin" is someone who has had ANY kind of sexual contact, yet you yourself stated the definition of a virgin as someone who has had sexual intercourse -

When did I ever say the definition of Virgin was someone who had any kind of sexual contact?

And how isn't anal intercourse not sexual?

[Juan.Camaney]

I can't help but mention that so far this thread is exteremly heterosexist. By these defintions, gay men and lesbians who have never experimented with straight sex are still all virgins. Is this really what you guys believe or did you just not think it through completely?
I agree with my fellow rug muncher here. If two people are in "bed" or anywhere else people "do it" with each other (back seat, elevator, kitchen, restroom at mcdonalds, in a plane, hot air ballon...etc), they are no longer virgins if they were sexually intimate in whatever way they think "its" done. Oral, anal, naval, etc.

If girl/boy was raped as a kid, virginity technically retained.

[Jimi]

virgin: 2a:and absolutely chaste young woman

A woman who has a man stick his tongue in her is not "chaste" :tongue:

[koЯnut]

sexual intercourse:
1.heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis

And this definition shoud be changed by today's standards on sexuality.

[BackdoorJesus]

ok, real quick down the numbers for you:

Penis-anus is called anal intercourse
penis-mouth is called oral sex, fellatio
mouth-vagina is called cunillingus
fingers,fists,& others-vagina is digital intercourse

penis-vagina is called sexual intercourse


your definition of the word virgin actually supports mfinley's argument, so why beat the shit out of this thread?

When did I ever say the definition of Virgin was someone who had any kind of sexual contact?

And how isn't anal intercourse not sexual?

your argument says this - you seem to think any kind of sexual contact is sexual intercourse, and it clearly is not

[Car Enthusiast]

i hate you jimi :)

[michaeljohn]

ok....two different opinions.
As you say I don't see your point, you don't see mine.

Anal IS sexual intercourse. Period.
I've shown the definition of the word Virgin and it proves my point.
your definition of the word virgin doesn't prove your point. Again, a girl who has had her ass rammed a million times, but not her pussy is a virgin. If you are the first to score, as I pointed out above, you are that special person that got in the hole first. no one else did before you. you took her virginity. Ok, if I fucked her in the ass, I tool her ass virginity, if she stroked my dick with her hands or feet, I took her hands or feet virginity. Blow job gets her mouth virginity. titty fucking snatches her boob virginity. But if I have hetero coitus with her, I took her Virginity.

[CD]

I've been proven wrong. I throw up my white flag and beg for mercy. However...

I worked with a high school girl a few years back. She had blown half the guys in the school

name and number please.

[Jimi]

I don't understand why this would actually be argued. I mean, common-sense shows that virginity is anything sexual, including fingers. The only reason anyone would dispute that is to alleviate themselevs from any reprocussions of anything.

[Jimi]

I worked with a high school girl a few years back. She had blown half the guys in the school

As a teacher, how did you know this? :tongue:

[Car Enthusiast]

man sexual intercourse is intercourse with sexual organs, not saying that other types of sex aren't sex, but once again sexual intercourse is intercourse with sexual organs

[Jimi]

No, any act of sexuality is an act of sex. Any sexual pleasure you get from anal sex is still sexual pleasure.

[Juan.Camaney]

Yeah, that born again virgin, surgical reconstruction, anal pounding, clit licking chicks have twisted the fuck out of the definition. For guys, its simple; you stuck your dick in anywhere oooey and goooey, you lost your shit.

[michaeljohn]

However...



name and number please.

Are you serious? She was a a brain dead nymphomaniac! I can supply the name and her cousin's name.

As a teacher, how did you know this? :tongue:
It was at my second job, I used to juggle two of them at once.

[BackdoorJesus]

man sexual intercourse is intercourse with sexual organs, not saying that other types of sex aren't sex, but once again sexual intercourse is intercourse with sexual organs

word - why is it so difficult for people to see this?? It's a pretty simple concept.

[koЯnut]

You guys seem to not look at this with a modern time outlook. Two men butt screwing is sex. It's also intercourse. Hence "sexual intercourse".

[Jimi]

So, while a man is using his penis in anal sex.... it's still not sexual because the woman is the receiving party and is not using her vagina? So, gay men are virgins if they've never had intercourse with women?

[michaeljohn]

You guys seem to not look at this with a modern time outlook. Two men butt screwing is sex. It's also intercourse. Hence "sexual intercourse".
ever hear of Sodom and Gomorrah? modern, no. Ancient, yes. and they didn't call it intercourse, they called it sodomy.
They still do. Again, as I pointed out, last time this thread was going, people were trying to change the definition of the word virgin. first guy to get his dick in a gal's pussy wins, right? we want virgins!

[Jimi]

And sex is called fucking. There are many names for many acts. It's all sexual.

[Car Enthusiast]

definitions in technical terms do not change with societal changes, they might take on meanings in slang or times in history but it doesn't change the original definition

[Jimi]

In which sense, you lose your virginity when you involve yourself in any sexual act.

[koЯnut]

ever hear of Sodom and Gomorrah? modern, no. Ancient, yes. and they didn't call it intercourse, they called it sodomy. They still do.

Very true...but there is a term "anal intercourse" that has its own definition.

Look, see it as you want. I'm being open minded. I see your points I just don't agree with them.

Like I said, times have changed therefor, meanings to certain things change. If you ask a gay male who has never had sex with a women but has had anal sex with another man if they are a virgin they will say no.

[Car Enthusiast]

we are all missing each others point

i am not saying that when you do whatever sexual that someplace somewhere someone thinks you have broken the virginity thing, i understand that when something sexual is done that you are no longer a virgin, as in that state of mind/morals

but people are trying to argue the DEFINITION of sexual intercourse, not today's contemporary view of sex, but the actual copulation of a man and a woman, the actual definition of it, definitions, "usually" cannot be argued, i am sure there is some exception to the rule, but the definition is just used to define something, i completely agree that if a girl says she is a virgin and i find out she has had oral sex i would still felt lied to but the definition is the definition

[Jimi]

Again:

Main Entry: 1vir·gin
Pronunciation: 'v&r-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French virgine, from Latin virgin-, virgo young woman, virgin
1 a : an unmarried woman devoted to religion b capitalized : VIRGO
2 a : an absolutely chaste young woman b : an unmarried girl or woman
3 capitalized : VIRGIN MARY
4 a : a person who has not had sexual intercourse b : a person who is inexperienced in a usually specified sphere of activity <a virgin in politics>
5 : a female animal that has never copulated

[Jimi]

Chaste, inexperience.....

People who have any course of sexual act are not chaste nor are they inexperienced.

[Jimi]

Also:

Main Entry: 2virgin
Function: adjective
1 : free of impurity or stain : UNSULLIED
2 : CHASTE
3 : characteristic of or befitting a virgin : MODEST
4 : FRESH, UNSPOILED; specifically : not altered by human activity <a virgin forest>
5 a (1) : being used or worked for the first time (2) of a metal : produced directly from ore by primary smelting b : INITIAL, FIRST
6 of a vegetable oil : obtained from the first light pressing and without heating

[Jimi]

One is the noun, one is the adjective, but they both show that chaste, pure, unsullied, unspoiled, untouched un anything are part of the definition of virginity. Therefore, any form of sexual pleasure be it vaginal, anal, or oral is still taking purity and giving experience, and is therefore no longer virginal.

[Car Enthusiast]

just read definitions of chaste, celibate, and celibacy, must sleep now, will reply with findings tomorrow, short cut" celibacy does not mean what most of us think

[Realtalguy]

I think it is only defined as coitus... or vaginal penis insertion...

^^^^This was the first reply to kornuts question^^^^

This is the right answer IMHO to the question asked.
Okay...the anal thread just got me thinking. What is exactaly the line where virginity is crossed.
If a girl does anal but not vag penetration is she still a virgin? What about oral sex?
Let me know what you think. I'll post my opinion later.

Mfinely has also repeated this about 20 times in his various replys. Heres the thing.

This isn't a question about fact anymore. Somehow it has become a gay straight soap box. Now if we are asking the exact meaning... Boom there it is. penis vaginal coitus.

Does this mean that any of us are against gay/bisexual sex? No. Does it mean we should bend the defention to fit todays standards of poltical correctness? I don't beileve so. Maybe this thread should have been titled "When two men have anal sex did they lose there virginity"

But as virginity is defined it seems very clear. coitus.

We can all talk ourselves in circles for the next 2 weeks and be at the same place we are right now.

[michaeljohn]

^^^^This was the first reply to kornuts question^^^^

This is the right answer IMHO to the question asked.


Mfinely has also repeated this about 20 times in his various replys. Heres the thing.

This isn't a question about fact anymore. Somehow it has become a gay straight soap box. Now if we are asking the exact meaning... Boom there it is. penis vaginal coitus.

Does this mean that any of us are against gay/bisexual sex? No. Does it mean we should bend the defention to fit todays standards of poltical correctness? I don't beileve so. Maybe this thread should have been titled "When two men have anal sex did they lose there virginity"

But as virginity is defined it seems very clear. coitus.

We can all talk ourselves in circles for the next 2 weeks and be at the same place we are right now.
Well said. You can't redefine a word that is meant for a special class of person, one that has not experienced coitus. Arguments to redefine the word are without merit and a minority opinion. What';s wrong with just calling gay anal sex, just that?

[kulotsalot]

i think the merriam-webster guys might change the definition in the future if there is enough demand for it. until then the coitus definition stands.

[Jimi]

How can we still be debating the definition? I've put the definition in noun and adjective form. Anyone who is having any kind of sexual contact is not chaste, or pure, or celibate. Some of you are ignoring the exact definition, and just using some random definition that you've pulled out your virgin asses! :tongue:

[koЯnut]

I'm not going to start this again but Jimi's right. All of you have said "your" definition but havn't backed it with hard proof(coitus). I havn't seen one definition of the word virgin with that word in it.
Also RTG, I never was limiting it to gay males. Anal intercourse is "sexual intercourse. With man or woman.

[michaeljohn]

I'm not going to start this again but Jimi's right. All of you have said "your" definition but havn't backed it with hard proof(coitus). I havn't seen one definition of the word virgin with that word in it.
Also RTG, I never was limiting it to gay males. Anal intercourse is "sexual intercourse. With man or woman.

ok, the proof is here, along with other things.there are other people that want to redefine the word, but you nuts are a minority.

From:http://www.hyperdictionary.com/medical/coitus

Coitus: Definition: Sexual intercourse between a man and woman in which the man inserts his penis into the woman's vagina.

Also

http://www.wylde.com/virginity.html

Virginity is the state of never having had sexual intercourse. It is viewed positively or negatively depending on one's gender, one's age, one's culture and one's own personal beliefs and attitudes. In some cultures virginity has no special significance, and young people, of both sexes, engage in coitus very early and there is no special status associated with not doing so. In others, virginity is required of both sexes, and in many it is required of women only. Violation may result in severe punishment. For example, proving a bride's virginity became a public matter wherein the bed sheets used by the couple on their wedding night were hung out the window for the wedding guests to view. A bloodstained sheet was a sign that the groom penetrated the bride's intact hymen, causing it to bleed. Though not medically true, the theory was that the hymen would be unbroken if she were still a virgin.

From:
http://www.io.com/~wwwomen/sexuality/virginity.html

Other Sexualities?
The modern definition, applied to both men and women, goes something like this: If you have had sex (meaning penis-in-vagina, and sorry for sounding so clinical!), then you are not a virgin.
Supposing a penis isn't part of the mix, though? Would this mean that two lesbian women together for fifteen years or more are still . . . virgins? Even if they are incredibly worldly with tons of experience? It could, depending on your definition.

But in that case, there isn't a handy word for these women to describe the significance of their first time, since only the experience of P-in-V is considered to be "important" enough to talk about. The first time experience of these women could, and probably would be, one of the most emotionally significant things in their lives. It could be emotionally equal to what a straight woman feels when she first has sex with a man.

And how about anal sex, with gay men? Are two gay men still virgins even though they may have been together for years and years? If you count anal sex as "losing virginity" for them, then would it count for men and women as well? There are many cultures that consider anal sex to be a "safe" way for a man and woman to have sex and preserve the woman's virginity, so if anal sex doesn't count for men and women, does it count for two men?

The definition muddies seven further when you think of a bisexual person. Would this person be a virgin all over again if she had sex with men and then had sex for the first time with a woman or vice versa?

Again, there is no word for these emotional experiences, if virginity is determined as being the first time that a person experiences P-in-V sex. And while a person can certainly still think of something as significant, and describe it well, what a culture values is often reflected in the words it uses.


Survivors of Sexual Assault
The common concept of a virgin is someone who has no experience with P-in-V sex, but it doesn't stop there. Along for the ride is also the idea of someone who can be nervous, unsure, or inexperienced with what pleases them or how to please another person -- all of which can apply to the person who was sexually assaulted as their first experience with genital contact. And yet calling what they have survived "sexual experience" once again fails to take into account the emotional similarity between this person's feelings and that of someone who truly has no experience with P-in-V sex.
Experience is sometimes seen as that which one learns from. It is probable that a survivor of sexual assault has learned nothing about what pleases them, and is likely indeed frightened off of learning further. And again, to define virginity as first P-in-V experience is to leave this person's first happy, joyous sexual experience with no word for it.

Indeed, there are many people who are nervous, uncertain, or intimidated by sex who have had P-in-V sex! Similarly, there is no word to describe these people's first time enjoying sex.

Again, I'm not trying to say that that person is crippled by not having a word for something. I don't think that language creates thought in quite that strict a way. But it certainly does reveal what a culture considers worth talking about by what they have quick words for.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Firsts That Count
The whole thing hinges on the fact that for many people, the first time they have P-in-V sex is not one of their defining experiences regards sex, or not a positively defining experience. And yet it can hardly be coincidence that the only first experience that "counts" is the one involving a penis. :-)
A general list of firsts that can be important, in any order:

first kiss with a MOTOS (member of the other sex)
first pregnancy
first time kissing a MOTSS (member of the same sex) -- this can be a transforming experience since it can really hammer home just how possible an enjoyable session with a MOTSS can be to a person without experience
first orgasm
first orgasm during P-in-V sex -- "Look Ma, no hands!" :-)
first sex with a MOTSS
first orgasm from another person
first time in love
first sex with a MOTOS
first P-in-V sex
first time enjoyed sex
and nearly anything else
Plainly, there can easily be experiences other than P-in-V sex that can have far more significance to the person having them than simply that.
The problems with definition crop up because that is the only one that counts in our culture.

[Jimi]

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=virgin

Can't argue with Webster.

A virgin is someone who is chaste, pure, without sexual experience. Someone who has had anal sex or oral sex is none of these things. This is the definition, I don't understand why this is still being argued.

[michaeljohn]

Pure and simple. you guys want to redefine the word virgin when it already has its own special meaning for a special type of human being. If you use the term virgin say to describe a homo who has had anal intercourse is no longer a virgin, we know what you mean. But it isn't accurate. Find another word!

[Realtalguy]

I would hope this would be an answer we can all agree on.

[koЯnut]

Yeah...this is getting out of hand...just circles. Mifinley we aren't redifinig the word "virgin". Jimi and I have both used the exact definition of the word in our arguements. Proving our points.
I'm not saying youre wrong with your views, just not open minded to the current outlook on sexuality today.
Plus your arguement about the Virgin Mary...you think god would have chosen her if she was a cum guzzlin, take it in the rear kind of girl. No. In his eyes she is tainted sexually. And that takes her innocents away along with her virginity.

[michaeljohn]

Yeah...this is getting out of hand...just circles. Mifinley we aren't redifinig the word "virgin". Jimi and I have both used the exact definition of the word in our arguements. Proving our points.
I'm not saying youre wrong with your views, just not open minded to the current outlook on sexuality today.
Plus your arguement about the Virgin Mary...you think god would have chosen her if she was a cum guzzlin, take it in the rear kind of girl. No. In his eyes she is tainted sexually. And that takes her innocents away along with her virginity.
I made that argument just to try to make my point, I am deleting that post. The only proof you have made is you are trying to redefine the word virgin.

[Jimi]

Yeah, Merriam and Wbster and I were sitting around drinking coffee the other day, and I asked them to change the meaning for this argument. Forget the fact that I copied and pasted the definition straight FROM the M-W webstie. I'm the one trying to redefine it.

[koЯnut]

I don't see how i'm trying to redifine a word when I'm using the EXACT definition of it. Please tell me how i'm doing this.

[Jimi]

mfinley, is someone who has anal or oral sex chaste, pure, or without sexual experience?

[michaeljohn]

I don't see how i'm trying to redifine a word when I'm using the EXACT definition of it. Please tell me how i'm doing this.
This too has been covered many times in this post. The traditional definition of sexual intercourse is assumed to be coitus. That is what needs clarification.

And BongRipper has already given a list of the correct terms, look back.

Fingers, fists, etc. Digital intercourse
Oral sex, fellatio or cunnilingus

Etc

You are taking the definition of sexual intercourse to include anal intercourse wherein itself, this is not sexual intercourse as only one sexual organ is involved, not two.

All this leads you to attempt to redefine the word virgin.

[Jimi]

mfinley, YOU are FAR redefining this word. You are the one who has tried to show translation to the word virgin, whereas we have stated the exact definition without any translation whatsoever.

[koЯnut]

One entry found for sexual intercourse.


Main Entry: sexual intercourse
Function: noun
1 : heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis : COITUS
2 : intercourse involving genital contact between individuals other than penetration of the vagina by the penis

Hmmmm...straight from websters.

Click for link (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sexual+intercourse)

[michaeljohn]

mfinley, YOU are FAR redefining this word. You are the one who has tried to show translation to the word virgin, whereas we have stated the exact definition without any translation whatsoever.
disagree entirely.

your logic:

Virgin=never having sexual intercourse
Sexual Intercourse=Includes anal intercourse (Wrong! Sexual intercourse definition is what is throwing everything off, it is traditionally assumed to imply coitus)
Experiencing Anal Intercourse=Equals loss of virginity.

Guys, I am really tired of this thread, honestly, I am to the point where I can't think of anything new and am just repeating myself.

[Jimi]

You're repeating yourself, but you keep dodging the actual definition. I've not once deviated from the definition. I am using words of english, and the definitions of such, as is kornut. The fact is, ANY act of sexual contact IS NOT chaste, IS NOT pure, IS NOT lacking in experience. In sexual intercourse, as was pointed it, everything sexual coutns, not just penis/vaginal sex.

[michaeljohn]

One entry found for sexual intercourse.


Main Entry: sexual intercourse
Function: noun
1 : heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis : COITUS
2 : intercourse involving genital contact between individuals other than penetration of the vagina by the penis

Hmmmm...straight from websters.

Click for link (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sexual+intercourse)
Your definition in bold is what destroys your case. How many times have I said the key is to be first get in her pussy with your dick! that is the traditional definition of virginity!

[Jimi]

Uhm.... mfinley, it says OTHER than penetration of the vagina by the penis.You're skipping over words now. :tongue:

[michaeljohn]

You're repeating yourself, but you keep dodging the actual definition. I've not once deviated from the definition. I am using words of english, and the definitions of such, as is kornut. The fact is, ANY act of sexual contact IS NOT chaste, IS NOT pure, IS NOT lacking in experience. In sexual intercourse, as was pointed it, everything sexual coutns, not just penis/vaginal sex.
I agree with your points on other sexual contact not being pure or chaste, etc. But the act of doing things other than coitus do not constitute a loss of virginity.

[koЯnut]

I don't think you read that right mfinley...try again.

[Jimi]

I agree with your points on other sexual contact not being pure or chaste, etc. But the act of doing things other than coitus do not constitute a loss of virginity.


By definition, virginal is chaste, pure, and without experience. Therefore, your theories are conflicting.

[michaeljohn]

Uhm.... mfinley, it says OTHER than penetration of the vagina by the penis.You're skipping over words now. :tongue:
I am not skipping over any words at all. Fine if these acts are considered sexual intercourse, but as i have said before, you are redefining all variations of sexual intercourse to mean loss of virginity. The sexual intercourse definition is what is vague here and how it affects, not virginity itself.

[michaeljohn]

By definition, virginal is chaste, pure, and without experience. Therefore, your theories are conflicting.
And you are ignoring the traditional meaning of virgin, the one I have implied all along. First dick in the pussy! Break
that cherry. This is what traditionally constitutes a loss of virginity and it has been pointed out countless times.
This is where you folks are trying to redefine virginity and skirting the issues I raise.

[Jimi]

No, I am pulling the exact definition. There is no tradition in definitions. I assure you that in the Biblical times, since you like to bring those up, had someone been done in the ass, she still would have been just as scrutinized as she would have if she had penile/vaginal intercourse.

This is the definition, and you can't argue with the definition. It is fact, definitions are what support our language.

[michaeljohn]

No, I am pulling the exact definition. There is no tradition in definitions. I assure you that in the Biblical times, since you like to bring those up, had someone been done in the ass, she still would have been just as scrutinized as she would have if she had penile/vaginal intercourse.

This is the definition, and you can't argue with the definition. It is fact, definitions are what support our language.
And this thread is played out. I rest my case. Closed and transfered to archive forum.

Maybe you guys should get on the change the definition of virgin bandwagon