Education

[bleh123]

I feel that we seriously need to consider as a nation to have a more fair and better education system. It's a friggin shame each individual city pays for their own schools as it leads to an obvious disparity when rich suburban towns only need to levy a 1% real estate tax to raise millions whereas, well, you get the point.

Disparity aside though, I honestly feel a whole lot of problems in this country can be solved with education. For one, if people buying mortgages actually bothered (and knew how) to do the math, they probably would be smart enough to realize they shouldn't do it (emotions of that great American dream aside). For another, people would realize having to pay anything over 5% interest on frivolous purchases (and most credit card rates are what, 10-30%?) is just a prodigious waste of money if they don't pay it off within a few months.

That's just trivial though compared to what I see as the real problem: robots. Now I'm not some crazy futurist who likes to make wild predictions, but honestly, the technology to have a robot do the job of, for example, a janitor is available *right now* at this moment. What concerns me is I remember seeing an article about how a position for janitor at a high school in Ohio drew over 300 applicants. Granted, it's a bad economy now, but that just forebodes worst things for me. The Roomba has been out for a few years, how much longer do you think it will take all those other jobs your average janitor has to do? It's not a matter of actually building those things, but a matter of cost. As you know, the cost of computer power (and memory and lots of other things) keeps halving every 16 months and that's a trend that will continue for at least 10 more years. But seriously, we're not that far off from a point where hiring people for mundane, boring, repetitive jobs (which robots are obviously perfect for) will become a matter of charity.

And it's not that bad because most of the jobs that don't require a high school degree just plain suck (no offense)-- honestly, why would anyone want those jobs?

I propose that everyone goes out and gets some sort of education beyond high school (even better, continue to learn for life). Not necessarily college, but, well, anything better than the joke of education that high schools (and more and more colleges too) have become. Clearly, if everyone just suddenly went to college and got a degree in philosophy that might not be the best thing for everyone and I don't really know what is the best education system/method one can have and so on. But I feel we need to have an education system that doesn't just teach blind memorization facts and whimpy math (compare it to other nations, it's in almost everyone the capacity to learn math. I honestly feel that parents complain way too much and get in the way of schools teaching their kids, and teaching methods are just plain dumb,everyone learns differently.) It's a win-win situation for everyone, I cannot believe there is no serious discussion of this anywhere. The only change I will be happy to see is one of massive support for failed public education systems and a serious discussion on where we should be going as a nation.

I read an article recently about the hackers in China. They're not some monolithic organization supported by the government, they are loosley organized groups of people. Being a hacker in China is actually quite cool and they are regarded with high esteem and admiration. One third of school kids in China recently polled said they want to be a hacker. Compare those values to here in America, where being smart and nerdy is generally looked down upon. With our extreme reliance on the Internet, this obviously is not a good situation to be in and it's only going to get worst.

Thoughts? I could just be rambling, but...

[joerockhead]

Well, I have to agree that something has to be done, but it is not entirely the school system, nor is the entirely the Teachers.

It is also the Parents! Many Parents have failed to ensure that their children are actually being good students, and doing home work.
Many Parents want to put all the onus on the School and the teachers, and not be responsible. They think if they buy into the whole "No one left behind" scheme and make the school do it all, they will have a brainiac kid!

However, it is true that the rich hoods get better schools and books, etc etc, then the poor neighborhoods. And that is up to the State.

Lets get the Parents on board first, then look at how the $$ is distributed. However, we do not need to waste more money by raising taxes.

[shiiboi]

That's just trivial though compared to what I see as the real problem: robots. Now I'm not some crazy futurist who likes to make wild predictions, but honestly, the technology to have a robot do the job of, for example, a janitor is available *right now* at this moment. What concerns me is I remember seeing an article about how a position for janitor at a high school in Ohio drew over 300 applicants.

You make some good points about the value of education and the disparity of how well its provided.

An important fact about the future, however, is that capitalist economies require a continual expansion of productivity. The recession we're experiencing today is the result of a tiny decline in GDP for a mere 2 quarters.

An important factor in economic growth is population growth. But in all of the modern economic powers population growth has slowed to near zero-- and 20 are experiencing population decline (including Japan and Russia). This has been the driving force for 'globalization' and 'outsourcing.'

What we need to see is an improvement in our elementary / secondary education system so that the young people in the workforce are competing with each other for 'knowledge-worker' jobs instead of competing with robots for menial jobs. We cannot affort to waste valuable humans in menial work. Bring on the robots.

[shiiboi]

It is also the Parents! Many Parents have failed to ensure that their children are actually being good students, and doing home work.

As a parent with school-age children, I would say that school systems make a greater effort to keep parents informed about their children than anytime in the past. In my district, if one of my kids misses a class, I get an auto-generated email from the attendance office. If they haven't been turning in homework or their grades are dropping, I receive a progress report in the mail. We are constantly encouraged to participate in school activities. I don't live in a particularly enlightened district, it's the norm.

But in the modern era where it takes 2 parents working to support a family it's not possible to monitor the children as closely as many would like. And in single-parent households it's even harder.

[joerockhead]

As a parent with school-age children, I would say that school systems make a greater effort to keep parents informed about their children than anytime in the past. In my district, if one of my kids misses a class, I get an auto-generated email from the attendance office. If they haven't been turning in homework or their grades are dropping, I receive a progress report in the mail. We are constantly encouraged to participate in school activities. I don't live in a particularly enlightened district, it's the norm.

But in the modern era where it takes 2 parents working to support a family it's not possible to monitor the children as closely as many would like. And in single-parent households it's even harder.

I am glad to hear that the School does do that for you! That is great.

However, using an excuse that Both parents are working is not a very good one.

My Parents both worked, and when they got divorced, my Mother had to work two jobs for some time. Yet, both of my parents ensured we worked hard and got good grades. When I got C's, TV was not allowed until they felt I was working hard enough. A D? Grounded.

I am damn glad that they did that now!!! I ended up getting excellent grades, even thought I am not brilliant. I have a good work ethic and a good job.

I understand it can be tough, but I think with Cell Phones, Texting, and Video Games, these are major interference, and parents have to try and keep that down.
Not an Easy Job, I understand that too.

[bleh123]

As a graduate from high school in the not so distant past, I don't really feel comfortable about this auto-generated e-mail thing. That implies the school spent money on a system just to take attendance, my high school was doing that just as I was graduating and I am glad I got out when I did.

My only problem with this whole attendance checking and report cards is summed up with the old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink it." That is exactly what attendance does, it forces the student to stay in school or class, but you cannot force the desire to actually learn. I wish there was an easy way to solve this problem, but obviously not.

And yes, my point exactly (about producing high-tech workers to compete with other global work-forces). Not necessarily about the competition, but about my belief that education would be a far better investment than anything else right now in our country. (besides maybe getting ourselves off of foreign oil).

[shiiboi]

As a graduate from high school in the not so distant past, I don't really feel comfortable about this auto-generated e-mail thing. That implies the school spent money on a system just to take attendance, my high school was doing that just as I was graduating and I am glad I got out when I did.
Attendance doesn't guarantee that a student will learn, but habitual truancy guarantees that they won't.

The email notification system keeps the parents involved. When I was a kid, my parents wouldn't know that I'd been cutting classes until the quarterly report cards came out.

[Krasch]

Attendance doesn't guarantee that a student will learn, but habitual truancy guarantees that they won't.

The email notification system keeps the parents involved. When I was a kid, my parents wouldn't know that I'd been cutting classes until the quarterly report cards came out.

If you were really really smart you could get away with it even longer. Do some of the homework assignments and as long as you could ace the tests abd exams you'd still pass easily.

[CD]

If you were really really smart you could get away with it even longer. Do some of the homework assignments and as long as you could ace the tests abd exams you'd still pass easily.

Yeah, but how do you do a homework assignment if you aren't there to know what the assignment is? I know you could call a friend but that will get old for the friend quickly.

[fmb]

However, it is true that the rich hoods get better schools and books, etc etc, then the poor neighborhoods. And that is up to the State.
Very good point. If the districts with more affluent backgrounds have the ability to generate more tax dollars, why not remove state tax money from the richer districts and give to the less affluent districts??

An important factor in economic growth is population growth. But in all of the modern economic powers population growth has slowed to near zero-- and 20 are experiencing population decline (including Japan and Russia). This has been the driving force for 'globalization' and 'outsourcing.'
You've hit the nail on the head. Not a single country in recorded history has maintained forward momentum when the countrys birth rate has declined. Many geopolitical strategists forecast countries with a negative birthrate will be supplanted within a 50 year time period. Makes sense to me!

But in the modern era where it takes 2 parents working to support a family it's not possible to monitor the children as closely as many would like. And in single-parent households it's even harder.

Why not make technology work for the moms and dads busting their ass to provide for their children? If we can monitor a police car/firetruck/ambulance with GPS to within +/- 3 feet, why can't a know if my child is in class? or completed an assignment? or has a science project due in three weeks?? Are we limiting our oversight due to our inexperience/understanding of technology??

[CD]

Why not make technology work for the moms and dads busting their ass to provide for their children? If we can monitor a police car/firetruck/ambulance with GPS to within +/- 3 feet, why can't a know if my child is in class? or completed an assignment? or has a science project due in three weeks?? Are we limiting our oversight due to our inexperience/understanding of technology??
I've met older people that can barely understand how to make a call on a cell phone (an old one at that), so trying to get them to understand GPS is like asking Miss South Carolina to explain "The Iraq".

I have to admit, that the technology does allow for some nifty things, but it also seems to take the responsibility away from the parents actually having to parent.

[bleh123]

I was going to post this in a healthcare thread, but figures it is way off topic so I'm putting it here. I know I'm just rehashing what I said earlier, but since I spent the time writing it, might as well not let it go to waste....

The most important problem facing our country is not the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan, not the public deficit, not our healthcare system, not the drug situation, not the economy and not crime. It is education. Over 70% of American jobs are in the service sector. Believe me, take a look at the types of robots (I'm talking about ones on the ground, not the ones everyone has seen flying in the air) the US military has deployed right now in Iraq and take a look at the ones they hope to have within a decade. We are seriously going to see within our lifetimes robots that are smart and capable enough to do all 70% of the service sector jobs out there. Robots don't need healthcare and there is no such thing as over-time pay for robots...I hope you get my point in that there will come a time that the only reason to hire a person to do certain types of work will be out of charity. The first jobs to go are the obvious ones: janitors, waitstaff, etc. (fast-food will layoff most of their workers, not that most people stay in that industry, but more full-service restaurants will probably want to keep the feel of a human, except TGIF and Olive Garden, those places are full of bullshit anyway-- no offense to the people who work there)

Education will solve a hell of a lot of the problems I mentioned above. If we had a nation full of people who seriously cared about their own education (and not going to college just so they can get a better job, I seriously mean doing education for the pursuit of knowledge. Having a real love of knowledge and a real yearning to want to learn more), things will improve.

If we had a nation full of Albert Einstein's, I'm pretty sure a lot of the problems I mentioned above will just simply fix themselves.

[ravenshrike]

Um, the amount of money a school gets has much less of an effect on the quality of basic education(reading, 'riting, and 'rithmitic) than you seem to believe. The DC school system is one of the worst in America, but it spends close to the most per capita of any public school system. There are a very few exceptions, but only in certain rarefied neighborhoods. It has everything to do with how the schools are run, especially middle and high school.

[BackdoorJesus]

Why not make technology work for the moms and dads busting their ass to provide for their children? If we can monitor a police car/firetruck/ambulance with GPS to within +/- 3 feet, why can't a know if my child is in class? or completed an assignment? or has a science project due in three weeks??

I agree with you: all children should be electronically tagged at birth so we can track them better.

For their own good, of course. :rolleyes:

[kawligia]

Once everyone has a college degree, none of them are worth as much, just like money or gold or anything else with value.

Once a bachelor's degree is just as common as a high school diploma, people will do other things to set themselves apart from the crowd. They will get advanced degrees or set up internship programs or any number of other things which can establish themselves as the most qualified.

But then, people will say that the college degree is worthless and everyone should get the thing that everyone turns to after college degrees.

Especially when they dumb down the requirements to get through college so that more people get through. That is exactly why high school is a joke now when it didn't use to be in the past.

The problems is that either some of us can succeed while others fail, or we can all fail. Unfortunately, it's just not possible for us all to succeed. It's as true today in the modern world as it was in nature for the cavemen ancestors.

[dan18apple]

the argument here are the same for better national health care, which is people at a political level need to take greater social responsibility when arguing for how tax payers is spent, but be willing to pay the necessary taxes to fund social programs like education and job training.