Let's go Dutch - A look at R. Reagan, Icon or Idiot..

[ddoubleez]

Now that we have one of most controversial presidents in history leaving office, lets look at one of the valued presidents...

We hear fox and other news channels ask the question, what would Reagan do?

Maybe the best way to determine what he would have done, is to see what he did with his eight years as president...

1) The start of the drug war.... Though other presidents did have anti-drug laws and policies, Reagan and good old Nancy took it to a whole new level...

The drug war has cost us over 2 trillion dollars every decade after 1982... Policies have pushed many states to budget more funding for prisons than public education....

We will revisit the above with the discussion of the iran/contra affair.

The Reagans, with the help of the media, were able to convince the american people that there was a crack epidemic, that did not exist, while he dumped cocaine on his own people to fund illegal military operations to 'stop communism' in central and south america...

2) Reagan was estimated by many to have an average to low I.Q. He was a democrat, but brought on by the republican party because he was so easy to manipulate and was very good at reading teleprompters, due to his background as a b-movie actor.

3) Reagan was the first president to triple the dept, which is indirectly contributing to our economic crisis.... Reagan campaign as a dept hawk, but had one of the worst records for dept to date. It is also assumed that reagan brought together investors to manipulate the stock market, which also has had a negative effect on our quality of life..

4) Reagan might be the single greatest contributor to the 9-11 attacks.. The Mujahideen were trained by american soldiers and members of the cia. We trained the Mujahideen how to build car bombs along other alternative tactics (cough cough, terrorism). We also supplied them with funding, or bribes for routes for pipelines....

The russians were battling radical factions of islamists, such as the islamic jihad and the islamic front. We armed these groups, who were comprised of people released from prison to fight and become martyrs in the jihad against the russians...

Then in 1987, the new leader of the USSR, Mikhail Gorbachev assessed that the his country was on the edge of collapse, and understood they could not sustain the military until victory... Among many radical strategies, Mikhail Gorbachev offered a peaceful surrender to the united states on the condition that they agree to install a government that mutually benefits both states. Having the military advantage, this would imply that the US would have the advantage in the government that would be installed...

Reagan and Richard Pearl answered back with the statement that the Mujahideen would be the ones to choose who governs afganistan. Effectively stopping all talks and installing a government comprised of radicalists and ex-prisoners. A vast percentage of whom were not literate....

Mikhail Gorbachev even sent a letter to the president that the Mujahideen would not lead to democracy. He argued that, instead, the most radical forms of islam would rise up and lead to unimaginable consequences.

Once the russians began to, finally withdraw, both the United States and afganistan, believed they won the battle for the region and started the fall of communisim. This of course was wrong..... http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/21/interviews/goodman/

So Reagan took credit of the fall of communism, at the same time he creates a REAL enemy, we do not know how fight...

5) Reagans gullibility, or stupidity, lead to the major move and flood gates for deregulation and privatization, which also lead to the current economic crisis....

6) Reagan overturned conservation laws and wrote incentives to take controls off of the use of natural gas that we use to heat and cook with and scraped the 10 billion dollar research package to develop the technology to change coal to a liquid that could be burned in the versatile diesel engine, that, of course would have been made in the us of a... He also removed the solar panels that were bought and paid for with the peoples tax money and removed at their expense to insure that the with house would not try to save the tax payers money.

7) Reagan was also the first president to sucker the evangelical christians to vote.. You see, until Reagans PR campaigns to get votes from the evangelicals, hard core christians were told not to vote, because they should not participate in a corrupt system... But Reagan and his staff members met with heavy hitters of the christian right, and convinced them that they would have a voice if he were voted in..... And vote they did!!!

They keep pulling the lever for the right and have gotten nothing, except being associated by war mongering oppressors that sell out the the first bidder! Lol...

8) I will continue, but this introduction will get long if I do not stop, for now.....

So idiot or icon........?

[michaeljohn]

He's inactive, maybe he'll find out about this thread and return to reply. I give you this in the meantime....

http://forums.webrats.com/thread10875.html

[ddoubleez]

EDIT CD: number bug

9) And I just cant leave out that Reagan postponed aids research for most of his presidency because he thought it was a plague that was sent here from god to smite the gay community... Now single guy got to wrap it before he taps it.... I think this why I do not like him, condoms.... I feel better for getting that out...

Peace!

[Krasch]

Icon. Case closed...

[ddoubleez]

Icon. Case closed...

It would add more to the thread, if you explained why you feel this way... I am not saying YOU do not have a reason, but if I ask most people if they like reagan they excitedly say yes, and when asked why they have nothing real to say... For 20 years we have said how much we like him, but never why...

President Nixon didn't think much of fellow Californian and Republican icon Ronald Reagan, calling him "strange" and not "pleasant to be around," newly released White House tapes show.

Talking politics with White House Chief of Staff H.R. Haldeman at Camp David in August 1972, Nixon switched the conversation to two Republican governors, Reagan of California and Nelson Rockefeller of New York. Both men unsuccessfully sought the 1968 Republican presidential nomination that Nixon received.


"Reagan is not one that wears well," Nixon said.

"I know," Haldeman agreed.

"On a personal basis, Rockefeller is a pretty nice guy," Nixon said. "Reagan on a personal basis, is terrible. He just isn't pleasant to be around."
"No, he isn't," Haldeman said.

"Maybe he's different with others," Nixon said.

"No," Haldeman said.

"No, he's just an uncomfortable man to be around," Nixon said, "strange."


He's inactive, maybe he'll find out about this thread and return to reply. I give you this in the meantime....

http://forums.webrats.com/thread10875.html


Well its is a letter that is nice, but very vague and not too accurate...

Reagan did not unite the country... He walked away from the salt and salt 2 treaties to start an arms race that DIVIDED this country...

He sold the american people on a false idea that the soviet union was aggressively seeking the end of the United States, and was a great military threat... If this is true, why did they collapse shortly after... And why was there no evidence that the soviet union had any plans of aggression?

The weapons build up cost us trillions, this dept combined with the drug war w/ interest, exceeds ALL federal income tax from then to the present....

You also can not expect someone as racist as reagan to be someone that unites the country...

Conservative politicians have a talent for telling memorable anecdotes that capture the essence of their beliefs on any particular issue. One of the most enduring of these came from Ronald Reagan on the subject of welfare. He cited a Chicago "Welfare Queen" who had ripped off $150,000 from the government, using 80 aliases, 30 addresses, a dozen social security cards, and four fictional dead husbands. The country was outraged; Reagan dutifully promised to roll back welfare; and ever since, the "Welfare Queen" driving her "Welfare Cadillac" has become permanently lodged in American political folklore.

Unfortunately, like most great conservative anecdotes, it wasn't really true. The media searched for this welfare cheat in the hopes of interviewing her, and discovered that she didn't even exist.

Statements like this were eaten up by the public and set back welfare programs by decades... The publics understanding of welfare has never been repaired..


Next:

I find it intresting that anyone that would be consideded an icon after he left office was almost impeached for incompetence....

For the last several years, the president almost completely withdrew from his duties entirely....

March 16, 1983: Washington Post: "Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) told the crowd that President Reagan should be impeached…for failing to deal with joblessness. 'Why don't we impeach Reagan for incompetence,' Conyers said, drawing loud applause from the crowd. Conyers said later that if enough people demand Reagan's impeachment, he would lead the effort in Congress."

August 14, 1983: Washington Post: "Enough of these 'cream-puff' constraints on presidential war-making decisions, cries Rep. Don Edwards [D-Calif]. Impeachment is the only way to stop Ronald Reagan's 'illegal war' against Nicaragua."

October 28, 1983: New York Rep. Ted Weiss "argued that the invasion [of Grenada] was illegal. After the committee session he suggested that Reagan could be impeached for unilaterally starting a war." The New York Times noted that also among the seven calling for impeachment: Julian Dixon and...John Conyers.

April 13, 1984: "Jesse Jackson called on Congress to consider holding hearings on impeaching President Reagan for the mining [of Nicaraguan harbors]. 'If an act of war is taking place without the consent of Congress, clearly it is surely an impeachable offense.'

October 10, 1986: On the downing of a U.S. plane in Nicaragua, Jesse Jackson "compared what he called the Reagan administration's 'disinformation campaign' about the incident to a 'Watergate' that could be grounds for an impeachment."

March 6, 1987: "Rep. Henry B. Gonzalez, Democrat of Texas, who asked the House to impeach President Reagan after the Grenada invasion in 1983, today introduced new articles of impeachment against Reagan regarding the Iran arms affair."

June 22, 1987: New York Times: "The chief substantive issue taken up at the [ACLU] conference was a proposed call for the impeachment of President Reagan for abuse of power in the Iran arms scandal."

July 9, 1987: New York Times: National Organization for Women head Eleanor Smeal "called on Congress to begin investigating the possibility of impeachment proceedings against President Reagan, saying she disagreed with the notion that Mr. Reagan should be allowed to quietly finish out his term."

[Juan.Camaney]

Icon. Case closed...
This.

Now, I won't add to what are obvious sentiments of the greatness that was Reagan, because a simple look through google can show you this, but I'll ask this...think of one president in our history that didn't leave something lacking. We know what side you stand on if you are illspoken about Reagen, but we can pretty much nit pick at each president and expose his fuck ups pretty bad.

[ddoubleez]

Now, I won't add to what are obvious sentiments of the greatness that was Reagan, because a simple look through google can show you this, but I'll ask this...think of one president in our history that didn't leave something lacking. We know what side you stand on if you are illspoken about Reagen, but we can pretty much nit pick at each president and expose his fuck ups pretty bad.


No most presidents did not fuck up at this level... Economic crisis, global pandemic, supercharging and never ending conflict in the middle east, trampling personal freedoms, build up of a weapons program that can terminate a planet, based of game theories from John Forbes Nash who was later discovered to be schizophrenic.... Yes, our weapons programs were biased on a man's thought process that was crazy.....

John Forbes Nash, Jr. (born June 13, 1928), is an American mathematician and economist whose works in game theory, differential geometry, and partial differential equations provided a basis for successive scientific research across a number of disciplines and mathematical insight into the forces that govern chance and events inside complex systems in daily life; his theories are still used today in market economics, computing, accounting and military theory. Serving as a Senior Research Mathematician at Princeton University for the latter part of his life he shared the 1994 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences with game theorists Reinhard Selten and John Harsanyi.

Nash is also the subject of the Hollywood movie, A Beautiful Mind, which was nominated for eight Oscars (winning four), and was based on the biography of the same name about him, his mathematical genius and his struggle with schizophrenia.


And we are talking about reagan who is refered to an Icon or a standard.... So he should be held to a higher level, in this case, but it is easy to find he was one of the worst.....

[Juan.Camaney]

No most presidents did not fuck up at this level... Economic crisis, global pandemic, supercharging and never ending conflict in the middle east, trampling personal freedoms, build up of a weapons program that can terminate a planet, based of game theories from John Forbes Nash who was later discovered to be schizophrenic.... Yes, our weapons programs were biased on a man's thought process that was crazy.....
What the fuck are you talking about now?! Economic crises come and go...its called supply and demand, the term recession didn't just come to be just recently, did it? In fact, aren't they comparing our situation to something that already happened in the past? Global pandemic? What the fuck?! Like Bird Flu? or Sars? Is AIDS airborn yet? How is this a president's fault?!?!?!?!?! conflict in the middle east...now there is something fresh! Wait...what? You mean its been happening since Jesus roamed the earth? Wait....before that too?! OMG! Now....I know you "progressives" don't believe in war or building up large quantities of weapons, but if you take the time to talk to someone working for weapons technology for the US Government like my boss' wife who I LOVE to chat with, you know that not every weapon is 100% and sometimes, you miss (I won't get into that since it is heresay....although she IS a GS-17 with more clearences than I can even imagine) so I'll say this instead...I know you are a hunter and keep weapons. So if your neighbor started being a dick and stealing shit from your house and ammasing weapons, at what point do you decide to pick up a few and defend yourself?

And we are talking about reagan who is refered to an Icon or a standard.... So he should be held to a higher level, in this case, but it is easy to find he was one of the worst.....
Al Gore just won a Nobel prize for utter bullshit and the people like you fellate him at every opportunity. If people want to consider Reagen an icon, that's great. To me, he was a president who did some good and in the long run became the legend he is now.

[Krasch]

No most presidents did not fuck up at this level... Economic crisis, global pandemic, supercharging and never ending conflict in the middle east, trampling personal freedoms, build up of a weapons program that can terminate a planet, based of game theories from John Forbes Nash who was later discovered to be schizophrenic.... Yes, our weapons programs were biased on a man's thought process that was crazy.....

And we are talking about reagan who is refered to an Icon or a standard.... So he should be held to a higher level, in this case, but it is easy to find he was one of the worst.....
Gee, a weapons program based of game theories from John Forbes Nash who was given the Nobel Prize. Yeah that IS a crazy idea.

Why don't we get Larry the Cable Guy instead? Lemme see, a Nobel winner or some blue collar schlub... Who should I pick? Hmmmmmmm..... :queso:

[gemo]

bug

1) The drug war was to stop communism in latin american governments. It was so that officials that were willing to stand up to the cartels and what not would have support from the US. Containment of Communism(Eisenhower's Contaiment Policy)
Also there was a crack problem in America. Illegal drugs does cause more crime. Ever heard of Freeway Ricky Ross or Frank Lucas? Ask them about drugs and what it does to nieghbor hoods.
Iran-Contra affair was never linked to Regan, it was general Oliver North.

2) Thats is just an assumption and an opinion.

3) Agian, just another opinion. There is more to it than just Regan's spending.

4) At the time Communist were our major enemy. Know your History. Regan may have trained them with the big help of Eniglish MI6 and SAS, but Osama Bin Laden's reason to target the US is because during Operation Desert Storm the US had stationed troops in Saudi Arabia and because the King of Saudi Arabia at the time refused help from the newly form Al-Queda in Kuwait and opted for the US.
Well since the Soviet were on the edge of collapse then we can thank Regan for the final push by making the war last longer than the Soviets could sustain.
"at the same time he creates a REAL enemy, we do not know how fight..." That is untrue. Last time I checked there is a terrorist body count.

5) There is nothing wrong with privatization. Its all part of Capitolism thats why were not commies. Last time I checked the US GDP is still number one.

6) WTF are you talking about? Are you sure that it was so oil companies could making more money? If that is the case, that only means it helped the economy because most of the money made by oil companies go back into America's economy. Saudis love investing in American companies.

7) This has nothing to do with Regan. People vote the way they want. It was thier choice.

9) How is AIDS Regans fault? First of all if your claiming that Regan himself did stop research on AIDS you can thank interest group and voters for that. Because it was the religious right that said AIDS was a plague agianst gays.

At the time AIDS was new to the world. Less than 400 dead when it came to Regan's attention, realistically thats nothing.


How are you going to blame one man for economic woes? Too bad that you didn't know that the economy is mainly due to people who buy things, meaning you and me.


STAR WARS program gave us all sorts of awsome tech.
Just to name one, Patriot Missile Defense and it works.

[ddoubleez]

Language: English (change)

bug

1) The drug war was to stop communism in latin american governments. It was so that officials that were willing to stand up to the cartels and what not would have support from the US. Containment of Communism(Eisenhower's Contaiment Policy)
Also there was a crack problem in America. Illegal drugs does cause more crime. Ever heard of Freeway Ricky Ross or Frank Lucas? Ask them about drugs and what it does to nieghbor hoods.
Iran-Contra affair was never linked to Regan, it was general Oliver North.

2) Thats is just an assumption and an opinion.

3) Agian, just another opinion. There is more to it than just Regan's spending.

4) At the time Communist were our major enemy. Know your History. Regan may have trained them with the big help of Eniglish MI6 and SAS, but Osama Bin Laden's reason to target the US is because during Operation Desert Storm the US had stationed troops in Saudi Arabia and because the King of Saudi Arabia at the time refused help from the newly form Al-Queda in Kuwait and opted for the US.
Well since the Soviet were on the edge of collapse then we can thank Regan for the final push by making the war last longer than the Soviets could sustain.
"at the same time he creates a REAL enemy, we do not know how fight..." That is untrue. Last time I checked there is a terrorist body count.

5) There is nothing wrong with privatization. Its all part of Capitolism thats why were not commies. Last time I checked the US GDP is still number one.

6) WTF are you talking about? Are you sure that it was so oil companies could making more money? If that is the case, that only means it helped the economy because most of the money made by oil companies go back into America's economy. Saudis love investing in American companies.

7) This has nothing to do with Regan. People vote the way they want. It was thier choice.

9) How is AIDS Regans fault? First of all if your claiming that Regan himself did stop research on AIDS you can thank interest group and voters for that. Because it was the religious right that said AIDS was a plague agianst gays.

At the time AIDS was new to the world. Less than 400 dead when it came to Regan's attention, realistically thats nothing.


How are you going to blame one man for economic woes? Too bad that you didn't know that the economy is mainly due to people who buy things, meaning you and me.


STAR WARS program gave us all sorts of awsome tech.
Just to name one, Patriot Missile Defense and it works.

Rep for the effort and taking this seriously... A SERIOUSLY!!!

1) The drug war was to stop communism in latin american governments.

If your statement were true, reagan should have had not problem going through congress and the people who elected them to wadge a legal campain.... Even if it were the right move(and it was not) it was exicuted illegally, with illegal means to fund it!

Numbers of those who use crack cocaine in 1988 484,000 ...

Number of of those who use crack cocaine in 2004 467,000 .....

FYI : Crack is used almost exclusively by Blacks and is a special plague of the Black community.

Fact: While often characterized as a drug of the Black community, 60% of individuals who have used crack in the last month are White. White crack users also account for 66% of individuals who have ever used crack in their lifetime. Simply stated, the majority of crack users are White.
Despite this reality, 80% of people arrested for crack offenses in 2002 were Black. Consequently, a disproportionate number of Black crack offenders face the harsh mandatory minimums associated with crack convictions.

Source:
SAMHSA. Results from the 2004 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: Detailed Tables.
Bureau of Justice Statistics. Compendium of Federal Justice Statistics, 2003. Table 1.4

Children whose mothers smoked crack during gestation are neurologically damaged. They don't develop emotionally or intellectually.

Fact: The assertions claiming that children who have been exposed to crack cocaine before birth are permanently damaged are unsubstantiated. Numerous studies have shown that there is very little conclusive evidence to support the "crack baby" myth. The pervasive nature of this myth makes it extremely difficult for babies who have been exposed to crack to receive adequate medical attention. As a result, there has been a recent push in the medical community to combat the "crack baby" myth.

Another point you need to be clear on, is drugs do not cause crime.... It is the policies that people put in place to control their use that create black markets that cause the crime.... You should know that atleast two countries have prisoniers that grow their own marijuana, because it occupies them and makes them more dosile.........


2) Numerous individuals in the medical industry all had collaborating POVs on Reagan and numerous individuals suspected this... Reagan was also easily confused and consistently contradicted himself...


Lyndon B. Johnson
IQ Score of 126


Abraham Lincoln
IQ score of 150


James Madison
IQ score of 120


William Mckinley
IQ Score of 128


James Monroe
IQ Score of 133


Martin Van Buren
IQ Score of 120


Richard Nixon
IQ Score of 155


Franklin Pierce
IQ Score of 132



James Polk
IQ Score of 135


Ronald Reagan
IQ Score of 105


Franlin Roosevelt
IQ Score of 147


William Taft
IQ Score of 132

Skip to 4) The USSR was way behind us economically, militarily, and one hundred other ways, they were behind us.... We made up threats about them having super secret technologies that never surfaced after the fall.... The only thing the fall of the USSR did show us was how far behind us they were.... If they were a dangerous super power that was a threat to us, how did they fall so far so fast, and where is the technology.....

This was a myth to unite the american people and a nationalist ploy to have us back a nuclear build up....

Ronald was a spokes person for general electric, one of the leading weapons producer in the world..... They profited on an unimaginable scale because of the weapons build up........ He was on payroll for a very longtime and helped ALL his campaigns........ http://www.smecc.org/general_electric.htm

5) Privatization has sunk the american economy and the UK economy... We took what our parents grandparents and great grandparents and sold it off to private corporations that allowed the infrastructures to degrade so the ceos can profit.... Privatization with extreme regulation is the only safe way to go and this government sells out to much for that to happen.... As for capitalism goes, it is an efficient means to an end.... It causes fantastic growth toward the end of its cycle followed by even greater crashes... You boy Ronny famously said what is good for big business is good for the country..... Well buddy we are in a global recession because of that policy and it has never been more evident how dangerous that thinking is (I could name numerous examples like Enron to further make my point....

Capitalism is the devils wet dream......

6) Saudis invest money in our markets to use as a weapon against us.... They have over a trillion dollars in our markets to use as a weapon if we choose to be less friendly to us..... Saudis invest in US oil companies only to get their oil to market so they can purchase their american weapons to keep their monarchy in place... They love to spend money, and are a slave to their incredible budgets....

You should also know that a huge slice of profits from large oil companies (they are referred to multinational corporations, because they are not US oil companies and do not pay many taxes here either)... Most of their engineers are coming out of other countries...

7) For someone telling me I need to know my history you sure are missing out on a bit yourself...

In 1979, the Rev. Jerry Falwell, then the head of a congregation he founded in Lynchburg, Va., with a popular television show, founded a group called the Moral Majority that would have a lasting effect on American politics. Mr. Falwell mobilized socially conservative Christian voters and turned them into an influential voting bloc, helping to elect Ronald Reagan in 1980 and 1984. Although the Moral Majority dissolved in 1989, the mobilized religious conservatives, the so-called values voters, helped carry President Bush to victory in 2000 and 2004

9) A significant source of Reagan's support came from the newly identified religious right and the Moral Majority, a political-action group founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell. AIDS became the tool, and gay men the target, for the politics of fear, hate and discrimination. Falwell said "AIDS is the wrath of God upon homosexuals." Reagan's communications director Pat Buchanan argued that AIDS is "nature's revenge on gay men."
With each passing month, death and suffering increased at a frightening rate. Scientists, researchers and health care professionals at every level expressed the need for funding. The response of the Reagan administration was indifference.

By Feb. 1, 1983, 1,025 AIDS cases were reported, and at least 394 had died in the United States. Reagan said nothing. On April 23, 1984, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced 4,177 reported cases in America and 1,807 deaths. In San Francisco, the health department reported more than 500 cases. Again, Reagan said nothing. That same year, 1984, the Democratic National Convention convened in San Francisco. Hoping to focus attention on the need for AIDS research, education and treatment, more than 100,000 sympathizers marched from the Castro to Moscone Center.


And for those that do not think that aids is a pandemic!!!???? :ugh:

pan·dem·ic (pn-dmk) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

Widespread; general.
Medicine Epidemic over a wide geographic area and affecting a large proportion of the population: pandemic influenza.

A pandemic (from Greek παν pan all + δήμος demos people) is an epidemic of infectious disease that spreads through populations across a large region; for instance a continent, or even worldwide.

Definition of Pandemic
Pandemic: An epidemic (a sudden outbreak) that becomes very widespread and affects a whole region, a continent, or the world.

By contrast:

An epidemic affects more than the expected number of cases of disease occurring in a community or region during a given period of time. A sudden severe outbreak within a region or a group as, for example, AIDS in Africa or AIDS in intravenous drug users. An endemic is present in a community at all times but in low frequency. An endemic is continuous as in the case of malaria in some areas of the world or as with illicit drugs in some neighborhoods.

And as far as the patriot missle comment, GET YOU FACTS STRAIT:

Success rate vs. accuracy
The U.S. Army claimed an initial success rate of 80% in Saudi Arabia and 50% in Israel. Those claims were eventually scaled back to 70% and 40%. However, when President George H. W. Bush traveled to Raytheon's Patriot manufacturing plant in Andover, Massachusetts during the Gulf War, he declared, the "Patriot is 41 for 42: 42 Scuds engaged, 41 intercepted!"[11] The President's claimed success rate was thus over 97% during the war.[/B]

On April 7, 1992 Theodore Postol of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Reuven Pedatzur of Tel Aviv University testified before a [B]House Committee stating that, according to their independent analyses, the Patriot system had a success rate of below 10%, and perhaps even a zero success rate. In response to this testimony and other evidence, the staff of the House Government Operations Subcommittee on Legislation and National Security reported, "The Patriot missile system was not the spectacular success in the Persian Gulf War that the American public was led to believe. There is little evidence to prove that the Patriot hit more than a few Scud missiles launched by Iraq during the Gulf War, and there are some doubts about even these engagements. The public and the United States Congress were misled by definitive statements of success issued by administration and Raytheon representatives during and after the war."

Also on April 7, 1992 Charles A. Zraket of the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University and Peter D. Zimmerman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies testified about the calculation of success rates and accuracy in Israel and Saudi Arabia and discounted many of the statements and methodologies in Postol's report.

And you also need to know if we ever use an outerspace defence system, the debris will destroy MOST of the satilites we have now, and prevent us from futher use of space............. So thanks for reminding me of this spetacular fuck up!!!!!!!!!

[ddoubleez]

Gee, a weapons program based of game theories from John Forbes Nash who was given the Nobel Prize. Yeah that IS a crazy idea.

Why don't we get Larry the Cable Guy instead? Lemme see, a Nobel winner or some blue collar schlub... Who should I pick? Hmmmmmmm..... :queso:

Yes, the same Nobel Prize winner, that admited, on the record, that his therories were flawed... And I respect him for that.....

And, wether it larry the cable guy or albert einstine, I would not trust anyone logic that lead me to build up a weapons program that was capable of blanketing the planet several times over, to deture anyone from using said weapons..... It is very illogical.... No one would ever engage in a senerio that they would not come out the winner..... UNLESS, winning was not the objective........

[Juan.Camaney]

hahahaha I'm just laughing at the IQ scores....what was the guy that rainman was made after's IQ? Lets make that motherfucker president. Seriously, ddoubleez, you often post some interesting and mind challenging data, but that one was just ludacris (spelled that way cuz I'm gangster)

[Krasch]

hahahaha I'm just laughing at the IQ scores....what was the guy that rainman was made after's IQ? Lets make that motherfucker president. Seriously, ddoubleez, you often post some interesting and mind challenging data, but that one was just ludacris (spelled that way cuz I'm gangster)
There is also something to be said about the relevance of one's IQ to ultimately how smart they actually are.

I've got a 145 IQ, I went to school through a program where EVERYONE in our class had a 140+ IQ, and I can tell you some of them were brilliant, and some as dumb as a bag of hammers.

There's book smarts which IQ is great at measuring, and smarts that come from real world experience which IQ does not measure well. Reagan may well have been average IQ wise, but his experiences in the real world made up for it.

[ddoubleez]

hahahaha I'm just laughing at the IQ scores....what was the guy that rainman was made after's IQ? Lets make that motherfucker president. Seriously, ddoubleez, you often post some interesting and mind challenging data, but that one was just ludacris (spelled that way cuz I'm gangster)


Your logic is a little off here... It was never implied that a high IQ qualifies you to be president...

But a very low IQ would call into question the ability to see long term consequences and the ability to think for one's self.... Bush Jr. was another of the low scorers and did horribly in school, and he did horribly in office and was obviously a victim of manipulation.......

The reason physicians are concerned and trained to rate IQ, is they need to judge the ability of the patient to follow directions pertaining to their recovery... For example, can they follow a rehab program without help or take meds without endangering themselves.... So if someone has a concern about being able to follow directions, it would be logical to call into question their ability to formulate directions that are beneficial to a situation, like a good leader would..

Ps I will be one of the first to criticize the IQ system, but it is an indication of capacity....

[ddoubleez]

There is also something to be said about the relevance of one's IQ to ultimately how smart they actually are.

I've got a 145 IQ, I went to school through a program where EVERYONE in our class had a 140+ IQ, and I can tell you some of them were brilliant, and some as dumb as a bag of hammers.

There's book smarts which IQ is great at measuring, and smarts that come from real world experience which IQ does not measure well. Reagan may well have been average IQ wise, but his experiences in the real world made up for it.

Anyone with a high IQ would call into question how you were privy to an entire classes IQ score... Then they would question the statical anomaly of having an entire class made up of people testing in the top 2% for IQ tests.... You could be telling the truth, but this is the type of questioning that intelligent people do....

[Juan.Camaney]

Your logic is a little off here... It was never implied that a high IQ qualifies you to be president...
so why even post that?

But a very low IQ would call into question the ability to see long term consequences and the ability to think for one's self.... Bush Jr. was another of the low scorers and did horribly in school, and he did horribly in office and was obviously a victim of manipulation.......
You think Bush did horrible. Many more are proud of how he handled things. Furthermore, even if things go awry, it is not indicative of your intelligence or your leadership skills...we have engineering blunders all over the world that took a lot of money, planning, and intensive design and calcs.

The reason physicians are concerned and trained to rate IQ, is they need to judge the ability of the patient to follow directions pertaining to their recovery... For example, can they follow a rehab program without help or take meds without endangering themselves.... So if someone has a concern about being able to follow directions, it would be logical to call into question their ability to formulate directions that are beneficial to a situation, like a good leader would..
Logic, IQ, and your ability to perform are not that closely related. Animals in the wild and single celled organisms live well and all they are programed to do is eat and recreate.

To me, a President's success is based upon how good a system he had to work with. He is nothing more than a spokesperson.

[Krasch]

Anyone with a high IQ would call into question how you were privy to an entire classes IQ score... Then they would question the statical anomaly of having an entire class made up of people testing in the top 2% for IQ tests.... You could be telling the truth, but this is the type of questioning that intelligent people do....
You may indeed question...

I'm privy to the fact because to even get considered for entry into the program required a 140+ IQ. The program in question was part of our city's special education program to help prevent students bored out of their freakin' skulls by the pace an average student learns at from dropping out of school entirely, or by submitting them to the social stigma of being skipped ahead grades in an effort to keep them challenged.

There's no anomaly to speak of. Students from all over our city were changed from their local schools ro the particular schools running this program, one for grades 4-8, and one for high school 9-13. Indeed it was few enough people that it was only one or in rare occasions at most three classes per grade in the whole school. Those students who didn't quite qualify were given options to either skip ahead (not as many grades needed to be skipped so it was easier socially to fit in) or receive accelerated learning in their local schools.

For the few of us that did qualify, that would not have been enough, so we got taught courses rated beyond even what they called "advanced". As an example I was using what normally was a grade 9 textbook for French in grade 5.

In any case, regardless of how insanely rapidly some of them could learn and assimilate information, they were still dumb as a bag of hammers. Book smarts do not necessarily mean you really know what you're talking about.