Birth Certificate - Non US Person???

[joerockhead]

Barack H. Obama II has suspended his campaign for at least two days to go to Hawaii, purportedly to visit his ailing grandmother.

But the sudden trip to the 50th state coincides with an aggressive campaign by Obama nemesis Andy Martin to legally compel Hawaiian authorities to release birth records that Obama has refused to make public.

And, in a separate Federal Circuit Court case filed by Philip Berg in Pennsylvania to force Obama and the Democratic National Committee to prove that the candidate is in fact a "natural born citizen," Obama and the DNC have failed to respond within a federally-mandated 30 day period, opening the door to a procedural argument that failure to respond represents an admission of the plaintiff's claims that the Democratic nominee is a Kenyan and/or Indonesian citizen, but not a "natural born" citizen of the United States.

The sudden Obama decision to visit Hawaii has triggered broad skepticism, coming as it does in the critical last two week of the close election campaign. Obama's 85-year-old maternal grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was first brought into the campaign when he sought to show that she, as a "typical white woman", held what the candidate claimed were racist fears of aggressive black men. He brought her up in the context of saying that he could not disown her -- despite her alleged racism -- any more than he could disown his pastor of twenty years, Jeremiah Wright. Obama visited her only very briefly during his summer vacation in Hawaii, and he didn't visit her when she was in a Honolulu hospital last week. There is no indication that her condition is life-threatening.

But Andy Martin, an anti-Obama columnist, says the real reason for Obama's emergency trip is to stop his own pursuit of birth records, including an emergency writ to the Hawaii Supreme Court to request expedited handling after a previous filing to demand that the State's Department of Health release the records. "Obama did not pay any attention to his grandmother until I showed up in Honolulu," he wrote in an email. "Suddenly she is the center of his attention. She is so central to his campaign that he has suspended it! But when Obama was here last summer he only visited his grandmother for an hour. One hour! Now he suspends his campaign for her?"

Martin mocked the Obama rationale for delaying his arrival till Thursday: "Obama suddenly announced Monday his grandmother had been gravely ill for weeks. He has his own plane. All he had to do is tell the pilot to file a flight plan for Honolulu and take off.... But instead of rushing to his grandmother's bedside, Obama is waiting until I leave Honolulu before he lands. Ask yourself, "What would I do?" What would you do if you had your own plane and mom or dad suddenly took ill? Would you tell the pilot to set course for Hawai'i, or tell him to wait three (3!) days before coming to your relative's bedside? How sick is she if Obama is will to delay his 'emergency' for three days? Is Obama trying to avoid me? We leave Honolulu Wednesday night and he arrives Thursday. You be the judge."

The Berg-initiated legal action is also pressing the Obama campaign. On September 15, as part of his federal lawsuit contending that the Illinois senator is ineligible, pursuant to the U.S. Constitution, to serve as president of the United States, Philadelphia attorney Philip Berg served Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee with a request for admission, which, on October 6, Barack Obama and the DNC acknowledged getting but then attempted to persuade the court to stay discovery and to dismiss the suit. However, Federal Rules require that a response to a request for admissions be served within the 30-day time limit, and Barack Obama and the DNC have not done so.

Therefore, this morning, Berg is filing two motions in district court in Philadelphia: a motion requesting an immediate order deeming his request for admissions served upon Barack Obama and the DNC on September 15 admitted by default, and a motion requesting an expedited ruling and/or hearing on Berg’s motion deeming the request for admissions served upon Obama and the DNC admitted. Berg contends that the failure to respond and serve the response within the time limit is "damning."

“They did not file answers or objections or anything else to the request for admissions we served upon them on September 15,” Berg said. “They knew the admissions were due. They knew they must object or answer specifically in 30 days. Here, they did nothing.”

The admissions that Berg asserts Barack Obama and the DNC have, at least procedurally, admitted to, include the following:

-Admit you were born in Kenya.
-Admit you are a Kenya “natural born” citizen.
-Admit your foreign birth was registered in the State of Hawaii.
-Admit your father, Barrack Hussein Obama, Sr., admitted Paternity of you.
-Admit your mother gave birth to you in Mombasa, Kenya.
-Admit your mother’s maiden name is Stanley Ann Dunham a/k/a Ann Dunham.
-Admit the COLB [Certification of Live Birth] posted on the website “Fightthesmears.com” is a forgery.
-Admit you were adopted by a Foreign Citizen.
-Admit you were adopted by Lolo Soetoro, M.A. a citizen of Indonesia.
-Admit you were not born in Hawaii.
-Admit you are a citizen of Indonesia.
-Admit you never took the “Oath of Allegiance” to regain your U.S. Citizenship status.
-Admit you are not a “natural born” United States citizen.
-Admit your senior campaign staff is aware you are not a “natural born” United States Citizen.
-Admit the United States Constitution does not allow for a Person to hold the office of President of the United States unless that person is a “natural born” United States citizen.
-Admit you are ineligible pursuant to the United States Constitution to serve as President and/or Vice President of the United States.


It is not at all clear that the actions by Berg in Federal court and Martin in Hawaii will be ruled on before the election, but both men have vowed to pursue their cases even after the election if necessary. Berg has said that he would drop his case if Obama simply provides documentary proof of his birth, but to date the candidate has not done so, instead releasing only images of a purported "certification of live birth" to the partisan Daily Kos blog and the sympathetic FactCheck web site.

(NOTE - There have been three differing BC's for Senator Obama, and all are deemed fake. Why would someone provide differing BC.s?)

[joerockhead]

The decision came down Friday evening. Philip Berg's lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve as president of the United States had been dismissed by the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick on grounds that the Philadelphia attorney and former Deputy Attorney General for Pennsylvania "lacked standing."

Surrick was not satisfied with the evidence provided by Berg to support his allegations, and apparently decided that the plaintiff lacked the required "personal stake" in the case. A plaintiff wishing to have standing to sue must show (1) a particularized injury-in-fact, (2) evidence showing that that the party being sued actually caused that injury, and (3) that adjudication of the matter would actually provide redress.

As the America's Right blog observes, "much of Berg’s basis for injury-in-fact could be considered threatened injury–he felt that the country was at risk for “voter disenfranchisement” and that America was certainly headed for a “constitutional crisis”—and, while threatened injury can certainly be injury enough to satisfy the injury-in-fact element, such satisfaction depends upon the threat being perceived by the judge as being not too creative, speculative or remote. The harm cited by Berg, Surrick wrote, “is too vague and its effects too attenuated to confer standing on any and all voters.”

So, who does have standing? According to the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick, that's completely up to Congress to decide. "If, through the political process, Congress determines that citizens, voters, or party members should police the Constitution’s eligibility requirements for the Presidency, then it is free to pass laws conferring standing on individuals like Plaintiff. Until that time, voters do not have standing to bring the sort of challenge that Plaintiff attempts to bring in the Amended Complaint."

Surrick ruled that "regardless of questions of causation, the grievance remains too generalized to establish the existence of an injury in fact. To reiterate: a candidate’s ineligibility under the Natural Born Citizen Clause does not result in an injury in fact to voters. By extension, the theoretical constitutional harm experienced by voters does not change as the candidacy of an allegedly ineligible candidate progresses from the primaries to the general election." Intangible or not, Berg said, we have a case where "an American citizen is asking questions of a presidential candidate's eligibility to even hold that office in the first place, and the candidate is ducking and dodging questions through legal procedure."

Berg plans to appeal the ruling, and apparently has new evidence to bring. He claims to possess a native-language audiotape of Sarah Obama, Barack Obama's paternal grandmother, stating on the day of the last presidential debate that her famous grandson was indeed born in Kenya, and that she was present in the hospital for his birth. "The tape is in the native language there," Berg said. "I will release it as soon as translation is confirmed by affidavit, and we are waiting on affidavits from contacts over here and in Kenya."

Berg, nonetheless, is disappointed by Surrick's decision and will issue a press release today detailing his plans to appeal to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals and then to the United States Supreme Court. "This is a question of who has standing to stand up for our Constitution," Berg said. "If I don't have standing, if you don't have standing, if your neighbor doesn't have standing to ask whether or not the likely next president of the United States--the most powerful man in the entire world--is eligible to be in that office in the first place, then who does?"

[joerockhead]

Philip J. Berg is appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court that Obama is not qualified to be President of the United States after his case challenging Barack Obama's qualifications was dismissed by a Federal circuit court friday.
Berg said, “I am totally disappointed by Judge Surrick’s decision and, for all citizens of the United States, I am immediately appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"This is a question of who has standing to uphold our Constitution, Berg said in a statement. "If I don’t have standing, if you don’t have standing, if your neighbor doesn’t have standing to question the eligibility of an individual to be President of the United States - the Commander-in-Chief, the most powerful person in the world - then who does? So, anyone can just claim to be eligible for congress or the presidency without having their legal status, age or citizenship questioned."

"According to Judge Surrick," Berg argued, "we the people have no right to police the eligibility requirements under the U.S. Constitution. What happened to ‘…Government of the people, by the people, for the people,…’ Abraham Lincoln in his Gettysburg Address 1863. We must legally prevent Obama, the unqualified candidate, from taking the Office of the Presidency of the United States,” he said.

Berg stressed the urgency of his case, arguing that “we” the people are heading to a “Constitutional Crisis” if this case is not resolved forthwith.

[93crawler]

Are you really posting this? OK, then if we're going to talk about this, lets also talk about McCain not fully releasing his medical records. This would include mental health records as well. Also, when I say fully release, I mean for everyone to see if they wish, for as long as they'd like to look---not just one hour!

[fmb]

JRH, is this the same guy that wrote a book about Obama?? If so, a few weeks ago he was booted out of Kenya for doing some investigation into Obama there. Apparantly, he (Obama) has "god like" status there. I do wonder how the plaintiff can't have any grievance with the court.

93 does have a point, although I'd have to remind 93 the only document Obama has released concerning his health is a single page from his doctor saying Obama is in good health.

All candidates should have to release everything related to his/her medical background. Neither of our current candidates have done this.

[ravenshrike]

Are you really posting this? OK, then if we're going to talk about this, lets also talk about McCain not fully releasing his medical records. This would include mental health records as well. Also, when I say fully release, I mean for everyone to see if they wish, for as long as they'd like to look---not just one hour!
That's a disingenuous argument Crawler, you know as well as I do that releasing the records for any length of time would get them permanently posted to the web. Also, mental health does not in any way make one fit or unfit for the presidency. You could have an admitted schizophrenic get enough votes and he could become the president.



As to the NBC argument, it's probable, although not certain, that he is one and that he's just a fucking moron and didn't respond to the court because of his arrogance. That being said, the judge made the wrong decision on standing.

[zpr]

Are you really posting this? OK, then if we're going to talk about this, lets also talk about McCain not fully releasing his medical records. This would include mental health records as well. Also, when I say fully release, I mean for everyone to see if they wish, for as long as they'd like to look---not just one hour!


It isn't quite the same thing. Nothing in McCain's medical records would disqualify him from the presidency. It might cause people to lose faith in him, but I don't see how any of it could disqualify him. Not being a natural born U.S. citizen would. Are you saying that you don't care if Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen?

[ImIn06GT]

i want to see bush(amd yes, i did type it a lower case and not capipal because he does not deserve it) release his health public..

[zpr]

Could somebody please explain why they see no problem with a presidential candidate refusing to prove that he is eligible to be president?

Call me whatever you want, but I see something fishy about this when all he has to do is show a damn birth certificate. I'm not saying that he isn't a natural born citizen, I just don't see why he won't prove it.

[joerockhead]

Hey, If the Obama campaign filed a suit to have the records shown, then it would be a story.

I posted the initial story, followed by two that are in regards to the ruling.
Basically, the Democrats have gotten this suit tossed, and Senator Obama does not have to show anything.
So, the fact he is Not a US Citizen does not bother any of the sheep, err I mean supporters.

That is fine. I just wanted everyone to know.

But is it not funny, that the Media has not once said anything negative about Senator Obama or his wife or extended family (except Fox news). And yet, nearly every media source is putting out negative stories about Senator McCain and Governor Palin.
Interesting.

[93crawler]

Why would releasing McCain's health (both mental and physical) records to the public, and therefore the internet be bad? I think this should be done, and mandatory by all people seeking public office, regardless of party affiliation. Also, having something like say PTSD should be a great concern of the public regarding electing someone to the Presidency. Do I think McCain has, or had PTSD? That's debatable.

Do I think that Obama is a natural born citizen? Yes. Why he isn't releasing his records for this, I really don't know. I do think that the stipulation for being a natural born citizen will inevitably be changed at some point though. I wouldn't be opposed to it being changed now, as long as that person has lived in the country for quite some time--say twenty years or more.

Lastly, I find it funny that Obama supporters are labeled as "sheep," but McCain supporters are labeled as what---patriotic? Yeah that's probably the case, if you're a Republican you're a "real American," as the awesomely nutty Congresswoman from Minnesota said. If you're a Democrat, then you're not really an American, but a mindless, gay, tree-hugging, socialist, hippie, sheep. I'm sure the majority of you will agree with the last sentence completely.

[zpr]

Lastly, I find it funny that Obama supporters are labeled as "sheep," but McCain supporters are labeled as what---patriotic? Yeah that's probably the case, if you're a Republican you're a "real American," as the awesomely nutty Congresswoman from Minnesota said. If you're a Democrat, then you're not really an American, but a mindless, gay, tree-hugging, socialist, hippie, sheep. I'm sure the majority of you will agree with the last sentence completely.


You become a sheep when you follow blindly.

[joerockhead]

...........If you're a Democrat, then you're not really an American, but a mindless, gay, tree-hugging, socialist, hippie, sheep.....


WOW!!! I never thought I would agree with you on something like this, well except for the hippie part


I cannot believe you admitted it.

[michaeljohn]

My guess is obama is a legal citizen and was born in the USA. One would have to have enough faith in the system that if it wasn't true, it would have been uncovered by now. It doesn't have to go across party lines either. Certainly, if Hillary Clinton doubted his status she would have pressed it since if true, the Democratic nomination would have been hers.

If he isn't a citizen, then shame on a lot of people! The requirement of citizenship was to keep foreign powers from coming in and controlling of our government.

[joerockhead]

......One would have to have enough faith in the system that if it wasn't true, it would have been uncovered by now. .......


Yeah.
:rolleyes:

[mainstay]

What's the big deal....it's just a Birth Certificate!!! Put up or shutup. Better to learn now before the election than afterwards. IF Obama was'nt born in the USA then he would have to step down or re-write the Constitution. I know of a Gov. in California that would be 2nd in the waiting line!!!!!

[licupssy]

What's the big deal....it's just a Birth Certificate!!! Put up or shutup. Better to learn now before the election than afterwards. IF Obama was'nt born in the USA then he would have to step down or re-write the Constitution. I know of a Gov. in California that would be 2nd in the waiting line!!!!!

I read in an article connected to this story which said he noted in his book that he considered his birth certificate one of his prized possession in his teens. This is something you don't throw out. I've had mine since I was 18 and still have it today at 59. I know the so called certificate he now has is not a vault copy of the original. What he has could be a fake. Fake identification is simple for criminals to get so it wouldn't be hard for him to get one. Why he wouldn't have a lawyer show up with a true copy and dispel the issue is beyond me. The only reason I can see for dragging it out would be to give the election to the democrats. If he was proven to have been born in Kenya then Biden would become President. Otherwise if it had be proven before the election then I guess McCain would have won by default since the democrats wouldn't have a candidate and I doubt if any of the other parties would pick up enough of the votes to be in contention. I really doubt that his mother went to Kenya to have the baby but I guess it's possible.

[shiiboi]

What's the big deal....it's just a Birth Certificate!!! Put up or shutup. Better to learn now before the election than afterwards. IF Obama was'nt born in the USA then he would have to step down or re-write the Constitution. I know of a Gov. in California that would be 2nd in the waiting line!!!!!

Groan.

First of all, Obama released his birth certificate in July '08. The Hawaii department of health issued a statement affirming it's authenticity. He's had to demonstrate his citizenship to state and federal authorities numerous times over the years in connection with his role as an attorney and public official. This is just another stupid, frivolous lawsuit intended to provoke racism and doubt.

The constitution requires that a presidential candidate be 'a natural born citizen' but never defines what that means.

This question was settled once and for all in 1964 when presidential candidate Barry Goldwater's 'natural born citizenship' status was challenged in court. Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory before it was admitted as a state. The court ruled that he had 'natural born citizenship' status because his mother was a citizen.

Even if Obama hadn't been born in a US state, he would still count as a 'natural born citizen' by the Goldwater precedent.

After all, that's why McCain qualifies as a 'natural born citizen.' Perhaps you didn't know that John McCain was born in Panama?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html

[joerockhead]

Groan.

First of all, Obama released his birth certificate in July '08. The Hawaii department of health issued a statement affirming it's authenticity. He's had to demonstrate his citizenship to state and federal authorities numerous times over the years in connection with his role as an attorney and public official. This is just another stupid, frivolous lawsuit intended to provoke racism and doubt.................



What the Hell does Race have to do with this?? Nothing.

So, why did you bring it up?

[Juan.Camaney]

Whoever thinks that releasing someone's health records is no big deal doesn't know shit from shinola. The potential future president of the US and knowing what foods/drugs etc can kill him? Yeah....

[zpr]

Groan.

First of all, Obama released his birth certificate in July '08. The Hawaii department of health issued a statement affirming it's authenticity. He's had to demonstrate his citizenship to state and federal authorities numerous times over the years in connection with his role as an attorney and public official. This is just another stupid, frivolous lawsuit intended to provoke racism and doubt.

The constitution requires that a presidential candidate be 'a natural born citizen' but never defines what that means.

This question was settled once and for all in 1964 when presidential candidate Barry Goldwater's 'natural born citizenship' status was challenged in court. Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory before it was admitted as a state. The court ruled that he had 'natural born citizenship' status because his mother was a citizen.

Even if Obama hadn't been born in a US state, he would still count as a 'natural born citizen' by the Goldwater precedent.

After all, that's why McCain qualifies as a 'natural born citizen.' Perhaps you didn't know that John McCain was born in Panama?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html


If he had released his birth certificate to the correct authorities it would be a non-issue.

McCain was born to U.S. citizens in a U.S. controlled area. I have a niece and nephew that were born on a military base in Germany. Both are natural born citizens because they were born to 2 U.S. citizens in a U.S. controlled area.
The rumors (which I don't believe) say that Obama was born in Kenya to a U.S. citizen and a non-citizen in a non U.S. controlled area.
If he does have a valid birth certificate proving that he is a "natural born U.S. citizen", turning it over would nothing but help his campaign.

[joerockhead]

...If he does have a valid birth certificate proving that he is a "natural born U.S. citizen", turning it over would nothing but help his campaign.


The funny thing is, Hawaii did NOT state the one he has shown is valid.
The Seal is int he wrong spot and info is incorrect.

It does not matter. The Seep do not care, they follow the leader and will be amazed when slaughtered (well, the people will not be slaughtered, but taxed and screwed).

[shiiboi]

What the Hell does Race have to do with this?? Nothing.

So, why did you bring it up?It has everything to do with prejudice. This lawsuit is aimed at the ignorant, yokels.


Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
By RICHARD S. DUNHAM
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau
Oct. 29, 2008, 11:27PM

WASHINGTON — A University of Texas poll to be released today shows Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Sen. John Cornyn leading by comfortable margins in Texas, as expected. But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.

Obama is a Christian who was embroiled in a controversy earlier this year about his two-decade membership in Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Yet just 45 percent of those polled identified the Illinois senator as a Protestant.

[/i]The Obama-is-a-Muslim confusion is caused by fallacious Internet rumors and radio talk-show gossip.[/i] McCain went so far at one of his town hall meetings to grab a microphone from a woman who claimed that Obama was an Arab.
The Texas numbers are unusual because most national polls show that just 5 to 10 percent of Americans still believe Obama is a Muslim — less than half the number of Texans who buy into the debunked theories.

read the rest of the article here: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html

[93crawler]

WOW!!! I never thought I would agree with you on something like this, well except for the hippie part


I cannot believe you admitted it.
Yeah, I thought you would agree with that statement. I'm not a hippie in your eyes thought, huh? Thanks, I guess. Yeah, I guess I live in "fake America," and therefore, am a "fake American." Although, since you live in Colorado, you are at best, a "quasi-American," hopefully your state goes in the "fake America" column. I could post what I think of you, but it would probably be censored by Juan, or someone else in your corner/ideology.

[joerockhead]

Yeah, I thought you would agree with that statement. I'm not a hippie in your eyes thought, huh? Thanks, I guess. Yeah, I guess I live in "fake America," and therefore, am a "fake American." Although, since you live in Colorado, you are at best, a "quasi-American," hopefully your state goes in the "fake America" column. I could post what I think of you, but it would probably be censored by Juan, or someone else in your corner/ideology.


Damn, I guess I need to add a smiley so people do not get so spun up.

I knew you where being sarcastic, and I was too. I figured you are supposed to be a smart enough college kid, you would catch it. But you did not.

As for what you think of me, go ahead. Post it. It has not stopped you before.

I am an American, and I am proud to say I am an American! I have no problem with that. I do not have problems with people that are not Americans, that hate me because I am.
I just find it odd that American's say they are embarrassed to be an American, and yet want to use the freedoms we are giving to bitch and complain about our country. Again, I say do something to make the change, not just post on a BB