Alternate theories that might ruffle some Christian feathers

[elfoozo]

This guy has a pretty interesting presentation. I am wondering from all you avid church goers are these theories full of crap or spouting facts?

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHe211mLV0

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92s-Rfh4CI&NR

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD8gbKIRpj0&NR

[gemo]

All I can say is there is a few that think these theories are true and many more don't think these theories are true.

[ddoubleez]

It is more believable if you just stick to what we can prove with history:

"Mithra is called a mediator; and so is Christ ... And so in similar instances. Mithraism had a Eucharist, but the idea of the sacred banquet is as old as the human race and existed at all ages and amongst all peoples. -- [Not much "divine revelation" in this greatest of Christian mysteries!]. Mithra saved the world by sacrificing a bull -- [just as the Jews saved themselves] Christ by sacrificing himself. ... Mithraism was all comprehensive and tolerant of every other cult; Christianity was essentially exclusive, condemning every other religion in the world, alone and unique in its majesty." (CE. x, 402-404.)

As for the similarities between Mithra, Mithraism, Jesus and Christianity:


Mithra was born on December 25th sometimes in a stable or cave but traditionally from a rock. The emperor Aurelian declared December 25 to be the official birthday of Mithra, circa 270 CE, even attended by shepards who brought gifts.
Mithra was a traveling teacher.

Mithra had 12 disciples.

He performed Miracles.

He was buried in a tomb.

In three days he was resurrected.

He was called the "Good Shepard".

He was considered ""the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."

His sacred day was Sunday.

His resurrection was celebrated on Easter.

He had a Last Supper when he returned to his father. Also called the Eucharist or the Lord's Supper.

He was believed not to have died, but to have ascended to heaven where it was believed he would return at the end of time where he would judge the living and the dead.

He granted immortal life of his followers through baptism.

Followers of Mithra were lead by a 'papa', the Greek word for 'father' and what 'pope' is derived from,who ruled on Vatican Hill in Rome.

Followers of Mithra celebrated "sacramenta", a consecrated bread and wine, using chanting, incense,bells, candles and holy water just as is found in the Catholic Mass.

Quotes:

"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments...Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine."-Tertullian in the late 2nd century C.E., describing the similarities between Christianity and Mithraism.

"He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation."- NO this isn't John 6:53-54. Its actually an inscription to Mithras.

Meet another god that came before jesus and had the same life:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

[gemo]

Who the fuck cares. Either you believe in a religion or not, its up to the person.
Since it is a faith, very very few would be turned away from thier religion anways. It's like gay rights, WHO CARES!.

[CD]

Who the fuck cares. Either you believe in a religion or not, its up to the person.
Since it is a faith, very very few would be turned away from thier religion anways. It's like gay rights, WHO CARES!.
Thank God everyone doesn't have your attitude. That's a piss poor reply if I ever read one.

*You either believe or don't*
1) Santa Claus: Kids either believe or they don't. And whenever evidence comes around that says your parents are Santa, most kids stop believing. Hence the reason he posted what he did.

2) I personally believe that cancer, cyanide, and blunt force trauma are bad for me, and until further time, I will continue to believe that. However, the evidence of those being bad is pretty strong. Religious evidence is mainly faith, so if you're scared enough to want to believe something, shouldn't you have all the info about your choices?

*Most will not turn away because of their faith*
3) Most Christians chose to believe that the Earth was the center of the universe too. I'm sure nothing bad happened when someone tried to say otherwise...

*Gay rights... who cares*
4) Probably gays.

[gemo]

I meant that let people do what they want.
1.People can believe what they want, if you want to tell them otherwise, fine go ahead.
and dont forget to disprove UFO believers too, I tried once their crazy.
2.Okay I understand that YOU think that religion is BS thats fine its your opinion but being force full on others who think otherwise is just as bad as those assholes that wake me up in saturdays to give me a copy of the watchtower.
3. Well these days in America(assuming your in the US too) nothing really has happened thats is anywhere comparable to what has happened in the past such as the cursades. Maybe Wacko, if you agree that what they were teaching was truely a religion or a cult.
4. About my gay rights statement I meant it by I don't care if lets say my gay neighbors want to get married.

Its the whole free will thing and I shouldn't stand in anyones way as long as they don't try to kill as many as possible on the way.
When was the last time a religious fanatic kidnapped you and forced thier religion on you? Asfor me, its never happened.

[ddoubleez]

I meant that let people do what they want.
1.People can believe what they want, if you want to tell them otherwise, fine go ahead.
and dont forget to disprove UFO believers too, I tried once their crazy.
2.Okay I understand that YOU think that religion is BS thats fine its your opinion but being force full on others who think otherwise is just as bad as those assholes that wake me up in saturdays to give me a copy of the watchtower.
3. Well these days in America(assuming your in the US too) nothing really has happened thats is anywhere comparable to what has happened in the past such as the cursades. Maybe Wacko, if you agree that what they were teaching was truely a religion or a cult.
4. About my gay rights statement I meant it by I don't care if lets say my gay neighbors want to get married.

Its the whole free will thing and I shouldn't stand in anyones way as long as they don't try to kill as many as possible on the way.
When was the last time a religious fanatic kidnapped you and forced thier religion on you? Asfor me, its never happened.

1) this is a dangerous thought process... If you think what you want, and go to the wrong source for answers, your phylosophy may endanger those around you.. Athiest are motivated by their understanding that religion is a source of great suffering and distraction... Athiests have science and understanding behind them, religious people have faith.... Faith is where you go when things believe in, do not add up...

2) No one forced you to open this thread... I am glad to have your opinion, but if you go to a thread that openly states that its intention is to ruffle feathers, you know what you are getting into AND IT IS NOT FORCED ON YOU the way religion is forced on me...

I would say having something on every legal document I see in an average day, refering to relegion FORCING a belief.... BUT if you open a thread like this and say it is forcing you are dead wrong...... The US is one of many governments that force religion on its citizens.......

3) Next, if you are a memeber here, a moderator will call you out for using your instead of you're.... For the rest of this statement, I can not even figure out what you are trying to say!!!?? But if you are saying we are not rounding up muslims and torchering them, you may want to second guess your statement... WE ARE!!!!!!!!! This is a redo on the crusades using some of the very same techniques...

4) If you do not care, why did you bring it up.... If this is the land of the free, no one needs to even have a conversation about what someone else does, UNLESS it effects them negitively, ie takes away from their quality of life........

And you are right, aliens did not bring religion here........... man did....



Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.


-NSk_ZeAH_I&feature=related

[Juan.Camaney]

1) this is a dangerous thought process... If you think what you want, and go to the wrong source for answers, your phylosophy may endanger those around you.. Athiest are motivated by their understanding that religion is a source of great suffering and distraction... Athiests have science and understanding behind them, religious people have faith.... Faith is where you go when things believe in, do not add up...
Athiest are also motivated by the lazyness of not wanting to go to church or follow church rules. Athiests also have faith...faith in the THEORY of evolution, in the THEORY of the bit bang and have big gaping holes "explaining" things like for example the missing link. We don't just have faith, we have books and miracles that science can't explain.

2) No one forced you to open this thread... I am glad to have your opinion, but if you go to a thread that openly states that its intention is to ruffle feathers, you know what you are getting into AND IT IS NOT FORCED ON YOU the way religion is forced on me...

I would say having something on every legal document I see in an average day, refering to relegion FORCING a belief.... BUT if you open a thread like this and say it is forcing you are dead wrong...... The US is one of many governments that force religion on its citizens.......
Religion is not forced on you. You also have the right to not open the bible or koran or any other book. If the thread really meant to ruffle feathers, than a reply from an aggravated reader is perfectly fine. His feathers were ruffled.

As far as the US forcing their beliefs on you, its about tradition. We were founded by religious freedom seeking white men.

3) Next, if you are a memeber here, a moderator will call you out for using your instead of you're.... For the rest of this statement, I can not even figure out what you are trying to say!!!?? But if you are saying we are not rounding up muslims and torchering them, you may want to second guess your statement... WE ARE!!!!!!!!! This is a redo on the crusades using some of the very same techniques...
No one is calling anyone out for grammatical errors. Please don't speak in our place as you are not really able to communicate what the mods actually do around here and fail miserably at understanding our rules at times. We aren't rounding up muslims, we are rounding up extremist terrorist who happen to be muslim.

4) If you do not care, why did you bring it up.... If this is the land of the free, no one needs to even have a conversation about what someone else does, UNLESS it effects them negitively, ie takes away from their quality of life........
He has the right to post his opinion here, thats why he brought it up.

And you are right, aliens did not bring religion here........... man did....

I'd like you to please do some research on this and figure out for yourself that some people trully believe you are wrong.

[cm8]

Athiest are also motivated by the lazyness of not wanting to go to church or follow church rules. Athiests also have faith...faith in the THEORY of evolution, in the THEORY of the bit bang and have big gaping holes "explaining" things like for example the missing link. We don't just have faith, we have books and miracles that science can't explain.


Religion is not forced on you. You also have the right to not open the bible or koran or any other book. If the thread really meant to ruffle feathers, than a reply from an aggravated reader is perfectly fine. His feathers were ruffled.

As far as the US forcing their beliefs on you, its about tradition. We were founded by religious freedom seeking white men.


No one is calling anyone out for grammatical errors. Please don't speak in our place as you are not really able to communicate what the mods actually do around here and fail miserably at understanding our rules at times. We aren't rounding up muslims, we are rounding up extremist terrorist who happen to be muslim.


He has the right to post his opinion here, thats why he brought it up.


I'd like you to please do some research on this and figure out for yourself that some people trully believe you are wrong.



LMAO......this actually brought a lot of laughter to my soul when I read this this morning. Thank you so much.... :duel:

[BackdoorJesus]

Athiest are also motivated by the laziness of not wanting to go to church or follow church rules.

HUGE valid point there - I believe that probably the vast majority of people who call themselves "atheists" initially began down that path for this very reason, and only as they have continued down that path do they come up with other "reasons" and "arguments" to support the decision originally made out of laziness.

[Krasch]

HUGE valid point there - I believe that probably the vast majority of people who call themselves "atheists" initially began down that path for this very reason, and only as they have continued down that path do they come up with other "reasons" and "arguments" to support the decision originally made out of laziness.
Or "excuses"...

[kulotsalot]

Meh. What turns me off organized religion is the inconsistency. So someone goes to church weekly, believes that abortion is wrong but sleeps with married chicks anyway... how can they claim to have faith in one thing that religion teaches, blatantly disregard another? In my mind, if you're gonna buy into a religion then you better buy into it 100%, it's not a pick-and-choose sort of deal. So I'd rather do my own thing and answer to my own personal god. I can be more consistent that way.

[Juan.Camaney]

So someone goes to church weekly, believes that abortion is wrong but sleeps with married chicks anyway... how can they claim to have faith in one thing that religion teaches, blatantly disregard another?
Because with religion comes the acceptance that we are sinners and that we need to work at our humanly mistakes. Even if it takes you to a deathbed repentance.

[Krasch]

Because with religion comes the acceptance that we are sinners and that we need to work at our humanly mistakes. Even if it takes you to a deathbed repentance.
Granted, but there are also far too many people who pay lip service to what their religion espouses and don't actually follow its tenets, imperfectly or not.

[kulotsalot]

Because with religion comes the acceptance that we are sinners and that we need to work at our humanly mistakes. Even if it takes you to a deathbed repentance.

Yeah but, how many people out there are honestly repentant about all the married chicks they slept with? How many people out there try really, really, really hard to not sleep with said married chick before caving in and then feel a flood of guilt after? Mmhmm...

[Juan.Camaney]

Yeah but, how many people out there are honestly repentant about all the married chicks they slept with? How many people out there try really, really, really hard to not sleep with said married chick before caving in and then feel a flood of guilt after? Mmhmm...
Dunno about that, because the guilt thing is part of the repentance and even though that person might do it again, because flesh is weak, he can keep repenting if he is trully sorry. That and we are taught to judge not lest ye be judged....so it doesn't matter what you or anyone else thinks about a persons actions, it is known that he is to be forigiven if he is ready to be forgiven.

See, you fuckers weren't paying attention at church. (For christians) Judas sold out the man upstairs for some gold pieces ultimately sending him to His doom and He STILL saved him right before he jumped into a vat of flames or hung himself....depending on wich movie you see ;)

Religion isn't about being perfect, its about trying to better yourself even if it takes you until your deathbed.

[Juan.Camaney]

Granted, but there are also far too many people who pay lip service to what their religion espouses and don't actually follow its tenets, imperfectly or not.
Standing in a church makes you as much a christian as standing in a garage makes you a car. Lip service, getting your sacraments, going to church, tithing its all going through the motions, yes. But you cannot really judge someone's intentions, it is up to their own relationship with their savior. There are plenty of war veterans who spent most of their lives killing people, yet they still do a lot of charity etc. It's not up to you or anyone else to judge. Keep that in mind.

[kulotsalot]

Dunno about that, because the guilt thing is part of the repentance and even though that person might do it again, because flesh is weak, he can keep repenting if he is trully sorry. That and we are taught to judge not lest ye be judged....so it doesn't matter what you or anyone else thinks about a persons actions, it is known that he is to be forigiven if he is ready to be forgiven.

See, you fuckers weren't paying attention at church. (For christians) Judas sold out the man upstairs for some gold pieces ultimately sending him to His doom and He STILL saved him right before he jumped into a vat of flames or hung himself....depending on wich movie you see ;)

Religion isn't about being perfect, its about trying to better yourself even if it takes you until your deathbed.

Yah and my point is, a lot of people don't even try. That is what turns me off religion the most.

[Juan.Camaney]

Yah and my point is, a lot of people don't even try. That is what turns me off religion the most.
Let he who is without sin....in other words, don't worry about what the fuck other people are doing. Worry about yourself and what your relationship with whoever you believe in goes. People wanna shuffle through the bible like a deck of cards and explain different parts that they think they learned at bible study...that ain't religion. Religion is between you and your God.

Now, carry on :) I've said my piece.

[kulotsalot]

Let he who is without sin....in other words, don't worry about what the fuck other people are doing. Worry about yourself and what your relationship with whoever you believe in goes. People wanna shuffle through the bible like a deck of cards and explain different parts that they think they learned at bible study...that ain't religion. Religion is between you and your God.

Now, carry on :) I've said my piece.

I just think that when you say non-religious people may be governed by laziness in following rules, you should consider that the not-trying-because-I'll-be-forgiven-anyway attitude that some religious people have is a LOT less work than actually trying to live up to a personal code of ethics setup by one's self. So it can be argued that religion is actually the lazy person's way of doing things! You have a set of rules pre-defined by your group vs. figuring out your own set of personal rules, and the bonus is that you don't necessarily have to follow through on these rules because you'll be forgiven if you mess up anyway! And then here we are, non-religious people, beating ourselves up when we fail to live up to our own expectations. :( I don't know about you, but for some people I know, forgiving one's self may be one of the hardest things to do.

[CD]

I just think that when you say non-religious people may be governed by laziness in following rules, you should consider that the not-trying-because-I'll-be-forgiven-anyway attitude that some religious people have is a LOT less work than actually trying to live up to a personal code of ethics setup by one's self. So it can be argued that religion is actually the lazy person's way of doing things! You have a set of rules pre-defined by your group vs. figuring out your own set of personal rules, and the bonus is that you don't necessarily have to follow through on these rules because you'll be forgiven if you mess up anyway! And then here we are, non-religious people, beating ourselves up when we fail to live up to our own expectations. :( I don't know about you, but for some people I know, forgiving one's self may be one of the hardest things to do.
Amen.

[Juan.Camaney]

I just think that when you say non-religious people may be governed by laziness in following rules, you should consider that the not-trying-because-I'll-be-forgiven-anyway attitude that some religious people have is a LOT less work than actually trying to live up to a personal code of ethics setup by one's self. So it can be argued that religion is actually the lazy person's way of doing things! You have a set of rules pre-defined by your group vs. figuring out your own set of personal rules, and the bonus is that you don't necessarily have to follow through on these rules because you'll be forgiven if you mess up anyway! And then here we are, non-religious people, beating ourselves up when we fail to live up to our own expectations. :( I don't know about you, but for some people I know, forgiving one's self may be one of the hardest things to do.
:werd: but you have to see that there is a difference in doing whatever you want and pretending to be religious, not being religious at all, and being religious and accepting you will fail and you will try to follow a righteous path. One of those is the one I'm defending...guess which :hay:

[ddoubleez]

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Epicurus

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true." - Mark Twain

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin

"The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."
--Ferdinand Magellan

"Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night." - Isaac Asamov

"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."
-- Chapman Cohen

"Of all religions the Christian is without doubt the one which should inspire tolerance most, although up to now the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men." - Voltaire

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." - Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government." - Thomas Jefferson

"In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people." - James Madison

" The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." - John Adams

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin