damage caused by E!

[W3bb3r]

I'm getting really curious about E and have done a bit of reading about it and so far it looks like if i did it once a month there will be no long term side effects
I'm just wondering if this is true or not
thnx

[BlackPearlSpace]

I wouldn't risk it, personally. Stick to stuff made by the planet, not some dude in his garage, or wherever the fuck its made.

I doubt there have been any double-blind studies to determine its safety. Stay away, I doubt its worth it.

I doubt you'd be able to keep it to once a month if you really liked it.


my 2 cents.

[W3bb3r]

but if you have gov. studies saying once a month is ok
whatrare the chances are that you will get addicted?
fuck there are worse drugs that i want to try-dry i'm drunkerbthan fuck disregard anything that i've said

"run for cover mother fucker"

*it took me 10 min to edit this shit and i still prolly missed shit"

[CoLdFuSioN167]

I wouldn't recommend it. I've done it a bunch of times but haven't done it in over 2 1/2 years. The study of E goes on but nobody is really sure of it. They don't know the long term effects of it. Also, you never really get a pure pill. They usually always put other ingredients/drugs in the pill.

[Jimi]

The pill is already made with dirty substances. MDMA. Methamphetamine. If you wouldn't do meth, why would you do X? There are studies that show obvious brain damage, yet people fail to ignore because, as they say, ignorance is bliss. I guess being an invalid due to a drug is bliss too, however.

[Kagh't]

It WILL, no ifs, buts, maybes, mess with your brain, immune system and mind. You will have long term side effects from taking E as much as you describe.

[icarus]

Yeah, stick to mother nature. You possibly could end up like a few of my friends (E-tarded). To me its really not worth the risk, but if your one of those people who can just do anything once in a blue moon, and not be addicited or affected by it i guess try it. Again, to me its not worth the risk of even finding out

[molman77]

`Whats kept me from trying it, is you don't know what the hell is in those pills. They could put in anything they have handy, amphetamines, DXM, ephedrine, Pseudoephedrine, PMA, 4-MTA, caffeine, ketamine. If I'm going to do drugs, I want to know what it is I'm doing.

[icarus]

Find a chemist directly.. They know what their cut with. It kind of comes down to if your a stable person or not. People who are kind of already stupid and fucked up, any harder drug such as E seems to have a more adverse effect on. Just like some people smoke their whole life and never get cancer. Some people do alot of E and never become E-tarded or have problems around it. Some people do it and are messed up and become addicted and such. If your unsure i wouldnt do it. I know people whove been fucked up from it and people who have been fine from it.

[smoke420]

It will definetly cause long term damage no matter what. Its just hard to say how much damage it will do. I did a lot of e when I was younger, went to a lot of raves and I know its affected the way I think now. Just don't overdo it. I would recommend fucking around with it for awhile if you have an interest just dont go overboard. long term use will definetly cause problems and youll regret it in the end.

[icarus]

What proof do you have that it will cause signifigant damage no matter what?

[Wilken]

I had some great experiences with it. Only did it a few times, and yeah, it would be great to know a chemist, but if you stick to once every couple of months, you'll be fine.

I love how the stoners jumped all over it - heh.

[danzman]

Your milage may vary..... You will have no way to tell the purity of the pills without significant analytical resources. Also, there is much research that conflicts with the brain damage theory. One of the original scare tactics done by "the man" was to show a CT scan of a patients brain that had abused E. The pic showed a huge section of the midbrain that was supposed to be dead. This is plain stupid. Had the damage that had been reported really been done, the person would be dead. Also, the patient claimed years of cocaine abuse. The damage done by E is probably very much like the damage done by meth. The chemicals are very much alike, and there modes of action are sim'. As with anything, moderation is key. Your body is a remarkable machine able to fix most all problems. One problem that drug abusers face is that they do it too much without enough time to recover. This is especially noted in opiate and cocaine abusers. So again.... if you want to do this drug, do it once, and wait a while before you do it agian. Also drink a lot of water.

[icarus]

Listen to danz everyone..chemist speaking.

[pilfreak]

Drugs are bad. mmk..
Seriously though. I used to absolutely love the shit. But barely take them now.
Havnt really noticed any long term side effects in most people i know.

[BigHerb]

As everyone else has stated if you do it, do it in moderation. I would keep it to less than once a month, but that can be difficult. I started doing ex in my late teens and got way out of control for about 6 months. I started the same way you are now, thinking I could just do it once in a while, then before I knew it I was justifying doing it once a week, and even more after that. Wasn't until I candy flipped, ex and acid at the same time, that I had a bad trip and stopped doing drugs all together. Personally I loved the feeling and would say give it a try if you can control yourself.

Also, when I was doing ex it was about 6 years ago and it was huge. There were kits you could get for free at raves that would tell you how much MDMA vs other junk your pills were cut with. Not sure if they have those anymore though.

[icarus]

They still do its called "dance safe" i belive?

[danzman]

Really??? Thats interesting... Do you have to crush the pills???

[icarus]

They scrape off a small sample of the pill to test.

clickzor for dance safe (http://www.dancesafe.org/)

[danzman]

Hey man, thanks. I had no idea that spot test reagents were for sale to the general public. The school that i work with has a big forensic science dept' and they let me play with some samples of meth and X. Sure enough the reagents that they had worked great for telling the two apart. The one that you speak of is called the Mecke reagent (which I could not get), but I had some old Marquis reagent at the lab. I had forgoten how useful simple spot tests are at telling what you have. The only problem is that you would still have no way to test for the potency, As the test acts only like an indicator. If you had done one of these tests with very pure X, howver, you could get a pretty good standard to judge other samples as long as you used the same amounts. In conclusion, this sounds like a really good product that anyone who is interested in taking X should invest in. There are also other reagents that will test for other drugs out on the market, I recently found.

I found this on Shulgin's website....... Just a little more info.


The Marquis reagent is a spot test for alkaloids that was first reported in 1896. The original testing agent was a mixture of 2 drops of 40% formaldehyde and 3 milliliters of concentrated sulfuric acid. It was originally used for detecting small amounts of certain alkaloids, and for distinguishing between them. The signature of the alkaloid is both the initial color produced, as well as the sequence of color changes occurring with time. In the early days the Marquis reagent was used primarily to distinguish the opium alkaloids. Each alkaloid had a pattern of color change. It is being used today as one of the identifying tools in trying to establish just what may be present in something that is sold as ecstasy. The compounds in the MDA, MDMA, MDE family give a purple-black color, whereas with amphetamine the color is usually an orange brown.

As the test is extremely sensitive, no estimate can be easily made as to the quantity of alkaloid present. And of course, a dark color will tend to hide a light color. As with all assays requiring subjective interpretation, experience is everything. Unfortunately, with our present restrictive stance on Scheduled drugs, it is almost impossible to get documented reference samples of alkaloids of interest, further limiting the accuracy of this kind of field tests.

-- Dr. Shulgin

Terms of Use

[TopMagnetTyrone]

I read a study once that claimed that chemicals in E feed on spinal fluid??I vaguely remenber some poor kid who ended up paralyzed or some chit.Could just be an urban myth-never took the time to substantiate it or not.

[danzman]

Urban myth...

[TopMagnetTyrone]

My guess as well...

[TopMagnetTyrone]

LMFAO!So I go to Google "ecstasy and spinal fluid"and a reference to this thread popped up!Anyhow,did a chit load of searching and its basically an urban myth.Cant remember about the rules about posting links,so I wont,but the Erowid board is a great source of info for most drugs etc.

[danzman]

Erowid has some good stuff, But they get a lot of stuff from un-documented sources, so again its hard to say. But the thing about spinal fluid is a common myth. I have actually never heard it about X, but many times about LSD. Back in the 60s when these kinds of drugs were becoming more common, there was a wave of information about the supposed long-term effects. Since it is quite difficult to guess at long term problems without much data, many of the reports were just silly. I cant tell you how many times I have heard that LSD would alter your DNA, or turn your unborn children into frogs or some other silly shit. And some way or another, this crap gets handed down through time. A lot of this stuff is somewhat based on true concepts but is taken wayyyyy out of context. For instance, LSD altering your DNA. I could understand the argument that LSD may be, in some small way, mutagenic. However, one needs to realize that the damn sunlight is mutagenic and can cause cancer, that doesn't keep people from being in the sun. Whatever small mutagenic or carcinogenic properties that these drugs have is quickly fixed by your body. As I have posted before, the human body is an amazing machine that we really don't know as much about as we often think we do...

But as for some chemical eating or feeding on spinal fluid....
the mechanism for the reaction of X on your body is probably very much like the mechanism of methamphetamine. The molecules look very much alike, in fact (if memory stands) the only difference is the addition of two Oxygen molecules bridged by a CH2 on the back side of the methamphetamine ring. And again, people have been using methamphetamine and amphetamine for years, hell we even give it to five year olds to help them concentrate at school. And since there has not been some rash of ten year olds becoming quadraplegic, I really doubt that any of these chemicals have any effect at all on spinal fluid. But, to play devils advocate, even if they did somehow damage this fluid, your body would simply make more. The only real cause for concern is the hypothetical instance that there was some sort of damage done to the actual glial cells of the brain or spinal cord. This subject has had little research done on it, and the research is often times unclear. It is my oppinion that all this fuss is complete bullshit. We come in contact with chemicals a thousand times more damaging than this all the time, and have little to no problems because of it.

[danzman]

Found this on google....
3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine ("ecstasy") selectively destroys brain serotonin terminals in rhesus monkeys
TR Insel, G Battaglia, JN Johannessen, S Marra and EB De Souza

Laboratory of Clinical Science, National Institute of Mental Health, Poolesville, Maryland.

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstasy"), an amphetamine analog, is a "designer drug" which is being increasingly abused. The potential neurotoxic hazard of MDMA in humans was assessed by examining the effects of repeated systemic administration of MDMA on selected neurochemical and behavioral measures in rhesus monkeys. In the first study, MDMA (2.5 or 10 mg/kg twice daily for 4 days) produced selective and significant neurochemical decreases in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) concentrations of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) and brain concentrations of serotonin and 5-HIAA. At the high dose of MDMA, a selective decrease in serotonin uptake sites (reflecting destruction of brain serotonin terminals) was observed. To determine if these changes after high dose MDMA were pharmacologic or truly neurotoxic, in a subsequent study monkeys were treated with MDMA (10 mg/kg twice daily for 4 days) and then monitored for 14 weeks. Throughout this period, CSF 5-HIAA was decreased in MDMA-treated animals but not in saline- injected controls. At the end of this period, significant decreases in the concentration of serotonin, 5-HIAA and serotonin uptake sites were observed in cerebral cortex and striatum but not in hypothalamus or spinal cord. In contrast to these widespread alterations in serotonin markers, comparable noradrenergic and dopaminergic measures in CSF and brain appeared generally unaffected. These data demonstrating potent and selective effects of MDMA on various brain serotonin parameters in rhesus monkeys suggest that the drug may produce similar effects in humans.

Volume 249, Issue 3, pp. 713-720, 06/01/1989
Copyright © 1989 by American Society for Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics




What this says is that when a monkey is given X, after the comedown there is less serotonin in the animals spinal fluid then at baseline. If the monkey is given HUGE (ten times normal dose) doses on a bi-daily basis for 4 days, the parts of the brain that uptake serotonin are found to be less active for 14 weeks. Now this sounds bad, but no human ever would take twenty pills a day for 4 days in a row(!!!). And again, it dose not stand to reason that the damage would be cumulative. As I have said about this drug before, and as I should say about ALL drugs, if you want to take it, take it, be carefull, dont be stupid, and then wait a while before you talke it again. Oh, and drink lots of water. Just think about smelling gas, you smell gas every time you fill up, but you wouldn't (or shouldn't) stick you head in a bucket and leave it there for 4 days......

[Kagh't]

If you had E in your spinal fluid, you would be permenantly fucked.

[TopMagnetTyrone]

Thanks Danzman.Thats some interesting info man!

[Jimi]

Found this on google....
3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine ("ecstasy") selectively destroys brain serotonin terminals in rhesus monkeys
TR Insel, G Battaglia, JN Johannessen, S Marra and EB De Souza

Laboratory of Clinical Science, National Institute of Mental Health, Poolesville, Maryland.

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstasy"), an amphetamine analog, is a "designer drug" which is being increasingly abused. The potential neurotoxic hazard of MDMA in humans was assessed by examining the effects of repeated systemic administration of MDMA on selected neurochemical and behavioral measures in rhesus monkeys. In the first study, MDMA (2.5 or 10 mg/kg twice daily for 4 days) produced selective and significant neurochemical decreases in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) concentrations of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) and brain concentrations of serotonin and 5-HIAA. At the high dose of MDMA, a selective decrease in serotonin uptake sites (reflecting destruction of brain serotonin terminals) was observed. To determine if these changes after high dose MDMA were pharmacologic or truly neurotoxic, in a subsequent study monkeys were treated with MDMA (10 mg/kg twice daily for 4 days) and then monitored for 14 weeks. Throughout this period, CSF 5-HIAA was decreased in MDMA-treated animals but not in saline- injected controls. At the end of this period, significant decreases in the concentration of serotonin, 5-HIAA and serotonin uptake sites were observed in cerebral cortex and striatum but not in hypothalamus or spinal cord. In contrast to these widespread alterations in serotonin markers, comparable noradrenergic and dopaminergic measures in CSF and brain appeared generally unaffected. These data demonstrating potent and selective effects of MDMA on various brain serotonin parameters in rhesus monkeys suggest that the drug may produce similar effects in humans.

Volume 249, Issue 3, pp. 713-720, 06/01/1989
Copyright © 1989 by American Society for Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics




What this says is that when a monkey is given X, after the comedown there is less serotonin in the animals spinal fluid then at baseline. If the monkey is given HUGE (ten times normal dose) doses on a bi-daily basis for 4 days, the parts of the brain that uptake serotonin are found to be less active for 14 weeks. Now this sounds bad, but no human ever would take twenty pills a day for 4 days in a row(!!!). And again, it dose not stand to reason that the damage would be cumulative. As I have said about this drug before, and as I should say about ALL drugs, if you want to take it, take it, be carefull, dont be stupid, and then wait a while before you talke it again. Oh, and drink lots of water. Just think about smelling gas, you smell gas every time you fill up, but you wouldn't (or shouldn't) stick you head in a bucket and leave it there for 4 days......
Yes, but the amount that many users take far exceeds, whether over a long-term use or not, the rhesus subjects. This drug is known to prevent not only normal serotonin levels, but especiialy in long-term usage prevents any normal serotonin levels, which in turn effects logical thinking, since all of your brain's areas are dependant upon all the others. The brain is hugely dependant on serotonin, which is why areas of your brain are known to show spotting in PET scans.

Bottom line, any chemicla you put into your body will have ill effect, but MDMA is just retarded.

[danzman]

Interesting. I've never seen any well done studies that looked at long term effects. All the ones that I have seen are not very sound. They include many other drugs, or a lot of other variables. So do you think the degradation of serotonin uptake sites is cumulative? I just can’t see how that makes sense….Anyone who takes tri-cyclic antidepressants has had their uptake site activity altered, and they seem to recover after a few weeks of inactivity. In the rhesus experiment the inherent flaw is that they were given such a huge dose in such a short amount of time. Anyone given anything in that dose could show permanent damage. Even NSAID's. While I completely agree with you that it is irresponsible and very unwise to put this chemical into your body, I just can’t believe that any drug is as bad for you as government officials would make it out to be. Take pot. While I, again, see absolutely no reason to smoke pot, for every study that shows permanent cognitive damage, there is another that shows the overall benefit of using it. What do you think?

[placeboemail]

E is not addictive... however, I wouldn't recommend it for long term use. It surely has to do some damage regardless of how often you take it.

[Dtoxz324]

I'm getting really curious about E and have done a bit of reading about it and so far it looks like if i did it once a month there will be no long term side effects
I'm just wondering if this is true or not
thnx

I've done it plenty of times dude and I'd tell ya, if anything don't risk it......There is too much @ stake and too much to lose for a 6-8 hour roll. It's a good time, but not THAT good. I'd say don't do it. :nono:

[deejay]

i dun a few pills b4.. in my mind the 40 mins of peaking isnt worth the next 40 hours of coming down and feeling like shit... the short term effects are bad enough for me to never do them again...

[loon]

Hmmmm well I havent ever done E and I have thought about it. Until I learned how much "junk" they add to it besides you have to think if it is not addictive at all why would anyone buy it? The whole thing about drugs is that they are addictive causing people to come back again and again. If they weren't addictive then there would be no point in selling them and making millions of dollars off the drug trade would there? Personally I don't take things I haved no idea what they are. After all if your making E in your basement are you concerned about what is in it? Or how fast you can make it so you can sell it to the kid next door? My guess is they want the money.

[Kagh't]

E is not addictive

Your an idiot if you think that, i can speak from personal experience, and several other people i know can too, when i say it damned well is.

[bumpersilike]

its phsycologically addictive, not physically addictive. you crave the buzz, but you wont get withdrawel symptoms. id taken acid sporadically through out my teens always smoked pot, taken speed and coke in my early 20's but didnt try x until i was 22, started out great a few biscuits here and there nothing to crazy, then i spent 4 months on your side of the pond where i smoked alot of weed and took alot of coke. when i arrived home(ireland), xtc was what alot of people i knew were taking so i just fell into it, started with a few on a friday night, then it was a couple on a saturday, and for a period of about 2 years i was taking xtc almost every weekend. the most pils i took in an evenin/night/morning i think i can estimate at somewhere between 15 and 20. BUT ITS IN NO WAY GOOD FOR YOU, your depressed for days after, it made me paranoid and always on edge, fucks with your physical appearance and your psycological well being. im pretty sure that one night i gave myself a brain stroke, if its possible, like a brain bubble or something. i know im not the same person i was before i started abusing xtc, or the same person i was before i even started taking xtc at all or the same person before i had taken acid. i wont be the same person tomorrow as i was yesterday either. all our lifes experiences change us. make sure there the right ones for you, i wouldnt advice against it, but just be carefull. oh and i havnt taken a pill since new years eve 2005 and never will again.

[pandamonium42]

as far as I can tell, the major dangers of doing e are:
1.impure pills
2.doing it too often
3.being a jackass while under the influence of e

I recommend ecstasydata.org for checking your pills, they have pictures and descriptions of each pill and what it contains. Not infallible, but hasn't let me down yet.

I tend to keep my rolls several months apart. If you do them too frequently, you start to feel a little fried, the comedowns get more depressing, and, well, have you ever heard of an "e-tard?" there's a reason that term was coined.

While rolling, people will sometimes either forget to drink water (especially at raves where water can be expensive and people are getting really into dancing their asses off and neglect to take care of themselves) and overheat to the point of fatal organ failure, or they will drink WAY THE HELL TOO MUCH water and die of kidney failure. Just keep it balanced.

if you need lots of information, I recommend erowid.org for all your drug-information needs.

[pandamonium42]

oh, also, don't take too much at once. Start with one pill, that usually tends to end up being a reasonable amount.

[Andrew62]

my advice would to not do anything, because even if its grown from "mother nature" its still enhanced with chemicals even if it is "organic" organic weed is still spiked with more THC.. and if the guy you bought it from is paranoid the cops are onto him he might put more THC into it so he can get rid of the THC faster.. fact is all of that shit is grown/manufactured by some dude in his garage and all of it can fuck up your brain.